Back in college, some friends hanging out at someone's house, one said, sadly, "Damn! Peggy and Steve are getting divorced." Another responded flatly, "That's what they get for getting married."

I have nothing against marriage (I have two to my...credit?), but that has always stuck in my mind.

Both my ex-wives were good housekeepers; when we divorced, they kept the houses - BADDA BING!!

I occasionally see my second wife on the road when I'm driving. It's been years and I still miss her. But my aim is improving - BADDA BOOM!!

Jerry - If I recall, you stood by patiently to look at that '72 project until I was finished looking and decided to pass. So, are you saying if I'd bought it, I would have saved your marriage? Wish I knew it was you that day, we would have talked Porsche and m/c's.......What ever happened to that '72?

hope it's not..
but... when you find yourself doing your best and more..
but still get pissed on...
your looking for compromise..they expect surrender...
when you find yourself asking is this worth it..?
the train has left the station..
your asking ..should I slow down or stop...

ticket please..
good luck..

Rika

Damn, Rika... http://forums.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/clap.gif


So many incredible posts. This is a special thread.

Rika has the best haikus.;)

+1

Top Shelf Thread too!

There came a point where any answer I gave was the wrong answer. Any action I took was the wrong action. The epiphany was when I realized the game was rigged. That's when I knew it was over.

All for the best, though. Life goes on. SmileWavy

I'm not going to get married. I'm just going to find a chick I can't stand and give her my house.

I think he's trying to follow in David Carradine's footsteps.....well, except for the whole tying himself up in the closet thing..:D

I knew it was over when I posted on the internet asking for advice.

When was it over?

I can only speak to dating, as I'm on my only marriage. And yes, the standards for marriage and dating are very different.

I broke up with one girl because I realized I couldn't fix (change) her. That was an important life lesson. From that point on, I looked for women that suited me, instead of trying to make them suit me.

I broke up with one girl because the relationship had run its course and when it came down to it, we had fun but we never clicked.

Then there is this other girl. I asked her out twice in high school. She turned me down twice. We became friends in college (she was a few years younger) and hung out all the time with each other. We didn't really date, but we spent a lot of time with each other. I'd often, but not always pay for our activities. I took her out to dinner a few times. We never did anything physical. I think we were both a little afraid of breaking that barrier because it would have changed things. We each dated other people on and off for years, but there were long periods where we were both single. She lived by my parents in Naperville and would swing by whenever my car was in front of their house. At some point I decided that she had some baggage (namely her family--her brother is the guy who won't stop calling me) that I didn't want. The last time I saw her, she told me that I was the nicest guy she had ever dated (and I never considered us as having dated). I knew what that meant was that she was finally ready for a relationship, but I had moved on. I was with my now-wife and the other girl and I drifted apart. I didn't invite her to my wedding. I felt like we had been so emotionally close in the past that it would have been like inviting an ex-girlfriend.

OK, here's my 2 contributions

We'll call her Shelia, the girl could put the booze away, she started bouncing checks for Wild Turkey at her place of work (super mrkt)... she took my daughter (4 at the time) with her in a car where there were open containers in the car.... I packed her shyte up and called her brother to come get her... the lies, stupidity all out performed her performances in the bedroom, (they were legendary) couldn't live with the crazy any longer.... I couldn't expose my kid, mtg, career to the constant collateral damage... wrote a song about it "Walkin the dog azz biatch"

This also crazy -
We'll call her "Evil Stacy" (name changed to protect...)
She started going to the gym a lot, lost too much weight, had 3..count 'em 3 boob jobs, a nose job... there was something brewing and I knew it was only a matter of time... I got out quick and clean and just in time to witness the subsequent carnage that followed... She had daddy issues and there was nothing and I mean nothing that I could do to help her through that..

Now for the record there were no marriages or children involved directly with these woman, if so I might have handled things differently, but as it was I knew I didn't have the ability to cope with the madness and frankly didn't have to b/c they were girlfriends...

My heart goes out to the guys who married women who at some point in their relationships had a cataclysmic shift in the DNA of their relationships where marriage and/or children are involved....

Same here and hope he is asking about a friend.

You will probably get laid a LOT more than those of us who have tried marriage.

I'm living that "dream" right now... http://forums.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/wat5.gif

Thanks for your thoughtful and occasional acerbic replies.

I am at a cross road now. Although I have made many concessions regarding the stepdtrs and what I consider wife's overly permissive attitude by finally limiting my input to one or two basic house rules, my wife blatantly conspired (let's call it what it was...outright deceived me and lied) to cover up the breach of a non-negotiable rule by one of the stepdtrs.

I snapped and went ballistic...vicious argument with horrible name calling by both of us. Wife and girls packed bags and moved out.

The irony is that the girls will be leaving in 5 weeks to go off to college and they are absolutely our only point of contention. Otherwise we get along very well on all levels.

On the plus side I really am enjoying the peace and quiet of my home.

Sorry to hear. Really does suck.

Your threads on you and the wife have two consistent themes.

She undermines you.

You have some anger control issues.

You both have things to work on whether you say together or not.

Both issues will affect any future relationships that either of you have.

Good luck.

Jim,

Respectfully, I think you may have crossed a line or two. Your wife felt compelled to deceive you because she has intense, primal loyalty to her girls. Her fierce devotion to her girls may not be rational, but it's very natural. It's the very same devotion and loyalty that would make her a wonderful wife.

Never, ever get between the mama bear and her cubs. Never.

If you value your marriage, you need to apologize. Profusely and sincerely. You also need to apologize to the girls. And promise never to interfere again. And DON'T.

You should not be put in legal or financial jeopardy because of the girls poor decision making, but pretty much every thing else is off the table.

Save your marriage and salvage a healthy relationship with the girls. I hope it's not too late.

Very insightful, monkey. Had my wife been up front and told me what had happened and we moved forward with an agreed plan to address stepdtr's behavior, I have no doubt there would have been no angry outburst. Wife's delusional need to "protect" her children from being called on missteps is insane.

"Interfere"? He said he had one or two basic house rules.

If those stepdaughters can't live without violating them... and their mother covers up for them, they are the ones who need to apologize, IMO.

He might apologize for losing his temper, but maybe they lost their tempers, too... and the "discussion" got heated because the wimmens got caught trying to defend the indefensible... and defaulted to counterattacking with emotion as wimmens often do... completely avoiding the fact they were wrong.

I think we've gone through this before.

They aren't your daughters, PLUS (and this is a big factor), they are essentially adults now.

Why do you insist on intruding in their relationship? You're not their dad. Leave them alone, mind your own business and focus on the relationship with your wife.

You are (also) missing the point and making irrelevant points.

How so?

Moses...Unquestionably I owe an apology for my part of the tirade. But I absolutely have no raeson to apologize for my anger. I underrstand a mother's primal need to protect her children. When pressed wife concedes I love them and want to nuture and protect them almost as much as she does. Wife and other family members (including their deceased father's immediate family) recognize my compassion, kindness, generosity and love towards these kids. But they also acknowlege (including stepson) that wife's parenting decisions are often unhealthy when it comes to the girls. For a variety of reasons, she confuses being their friend and best buddy as more important than making appropriate parenting decisions.

The latter situation is the area I finally conceded to not get involved with. Wife and I made a mutual pact that I would extricate myself from those decisons in exchange for very limited rules that directly affect me and the quiet enjoyment of my home. The girls understand the boundaries and agreed to abide by them. Wife and I went out of town for 24 hours for a mini-getaway. One stepdtr blatantly abused the rules. Wife either gave her permission or upon finding out on our way home conspired to deceive me. As part of our above agreement, wife agreed to be honest with me. But for the fact that car trouble caused them to not be able to carry out their cover up, wife and stepdtr would have been ale to carry out their cover up.

While I may owe an apology for my outburst, wife must address her dishonesty. As I see it, its much like Watergate: A bungled third rate burglary was not nearly as serious as the cover-up.

Watched my mother do it to some degree with my stepdad.

We had some real barn burners.

My brother and I were a lot younger than your girls and as we got older we did eventually "get it" and made efforts to tow the line.

Funny part is by the time my brother and I were no longer the issue my stepsister moved in and the folks had some role reversal.

Mom and stepdad have been together 30+ years now.

I credit him as much as my father, (on certain things more), with being the person I am today.

Don't recall if you have ever considered or sought outside counsel.

If you want to mend the fence you may want to find a counselor and put it on the table.

I truly do wish you the best of luck.

He's not intruding on anything.

"Mind your own business"?

It is his business.

He has a few basic house rules and you know the rest of the story.

Hopefully his post right after yours has made things clearer and has shown you that he is in the right.

You have every right to be angry.

How you convey that anger is the difference between possible resolution or escalation that makes the initial transgression pale in comparison.

Your outburst made it easier to deflect. It became about YOU and not your daughter.

Frankly sounds to me like she's a spoiled little ***** whose playing you and her mother against each other. To bad Mom can't see how she's allowing herself to be manipulated. BTW, she's manipulating you as well. She knows you'll lose it and if she gets caught it's a way out. She gets the two of you to "change the subject" Seems she's good at it to.

18 year old going into college still pulling this adolescent crap? Don't hold your breath that she will change her ways anytime soon.

For perspective here are the basic rules that wife and I agreed on:

1. Ypu are welcome to have your friends over at anytime. Let us know if they are coming around dinner time, so we can throw an extrea steak on the grill for them.

2. Curfew is midnite on weekdays; 1 a.m. on weekends. If something's going on and you'll be late call us as soon as you know you'll be late. We do want to know where you are but barring a crack house we won't fiorbid you to go somewhere.

3. No more than 2 nites a week spending nite at BF's house. Let us know if that's your plan. BF's are NOT allowed to spend the nite at our house with you.

That's it. In exchange I agreed not to voice my disapproval of rule 3.

Yeah, the sentence below in his post does change things. Although it would be interesting to hear exactly what the rule, violation of the rule, and cover up was, to see how accurate the characterization of the rule is.

"The latter situation [parenting decisions] is the area I finally conceded to not get involved with. Wife and I made a mutual pact that I would extricate myself from those decisons in exchange for very limited rules that directly affect me and the quiet enjoyment of my home."

Yeah, but Dueller made the rules. It's pretty clear that mom would be more flexible with the girls if it was left to her.

These aren't little girls, they are young women. In a few weeks they are off to college. Is it worth torpedoing a good marriage over such a silly pissing contest?

Also do not feel comfortable with the wife lying.... about anything. If a couple cannot tell the truth to each other, then its going downhill and fast IMHO.

Understand what Moses said about "mother and her cubs" but still, lying is not acceptable in my book.

BF probably stayed over while Jim and wife were gone. His car wouldn't start when he needed to leave 30 minutes before Jim's arrival, and he couldn't get a tow in time (or couldn't afford it).

Jim, I can't believe wifey thinks it's okay for daughters to have sleepovers at BF's houses. That's wacky... but then you probably agree.

In my experience, this "permissive" style of parenting leads to kids who never leave home. At the very least the kids will be home during the summers and continue to break the rules. The more likely scenario is that they will move back in after college for at least another decade. Not enforcing the rules now will lead to much more misery.

But the wife agreed to the rules.

If she disagreed, or thought she would ever cover for them breaking any of them, she was wrong on that, too.

I could see the reason for the rule that the BFs can't spend the night at your house, I wouldn't allow that, either. I don't think most would. If they want to play grown up, they can buy/rent their own house, or get a hotel room.

But you were gone anyways. As long as they weren't doing it in your bed (big yuck on that), why not just let it go? I can certainly see you having the right to rules which affect YOU and YOUR "quiet enjoyment" of your house. But you weren't even home (I know, I know, it is still a technical violation of the "agreement").

Back to the title of your post, I think there is no way it is "over," this is a pretty minor, silly dispute IMO. Esp. since all of these "rules" and issues are moot in a few weeks. If your relationship can't handle something this minor, there are certainly many other issues involved here.

hold the horse..
Mommy needs to grow up..
having been part of D's adventures from afar..
I felt // KNEW this day would come...
D , I truly wish you the best...
but as I see it...
she see's her future with them...
you will always be last in this relationship....
even if you behave...best you will ever see / get..
is sloppy second..


Rika

Moses, with all due respect WE made the rules. And I have made many more concessions and contributions to these kids than most stepdads.

This is not the first time mom has covered up/defended the kids/lied for them. And more often than not, I just let it go. Or calmly tell my wife I don't appreciate her dishonesty. It would be one thing if I were an uninvolved stepdad. But I have been explicitly called on to do a lot of heavy lifting for the benefit of the kids. Which I willingly and gladly do. From legal (all three have had minor scrapes with the law...if you call shoplifting or minor in possession or DUI controlled substance minor), to financial to educational to emotional. Even moreso recently with their birth father's death.

Again, these are rules which involve DUELLER's quiet enjoyment of his house, which I agree he is entitled to.

But this "violation" did nothing to affect Dueller. He wasn't even home. In this instance, it was a parenting issue, not "quiet enjoyment" issue.

She agree to rules that Jim insisted on. Agreements made under duress...

Jim can stomp his feet and pound his fists on the table. He was "right" and she was "wrong". Doesn't much matter. No one will hear him when he's all alone.

The problem with "my way or the highway" is that sometimes they choose the highway.

Seriously, what has been done has been done, it's over and can't be changed.

IMO as the man in this situation, you should take charge of getting things moving forward. Just let it go, it doesn't matter who was "right" or "wrong" (there's some blame for everyone her, but keeping score is a useless activity) the kids are gone in a few weeks, man it up and mend things up.