And a stepfather is a parent. A step-parent, if you will, but still a parent.

These girls are in for a rude awakening when they hit "the real world," because it doesn't work like their life has been working so far. Mommy can't cover for you if you violate one of the university's rules... or later, one of the boss's rules.

till the next time...
until then..
roll over, sit, bark....
give paw..go away..WE are busy...

we are in trouble..
call the dog...

good luck D...

Rika

That's life.

From the sounds of these girls, it's a good thing they are good looking.

Don't you play a thunderbird? A green one? Hmmm?



http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1246990865.jpg

I'm not aware these rules were made under duress.

It wouldn't matter if they were, however. From what he's said, the wimmens agreed to abide by them.

Then you know what happened.

Jim has every right to expect honesty from his wife. She is completely wrong.

Any attempt on her part (or anyone else's) to make this about something else or to say "they'll be living at college soon" is irrelevant and a cheap attempt at deflection.

Bring Angela and Kathy in here and ask their opinion if you think I'm off-base.

I'll be very surprised if they don't side with Jim completely.

Oh, BTW, who is paying for that?

LOL, now you are missing the point!

In my experience, they never will.

They will dabble their feet in the "real world", find mom isn't there to protect them, and come running home for the warmth and safety they have come to depend on.

No, I get that "joke." Jim's choosing not to surrender to that stereotype, and he's correct in doing so.

It is ultimately in the best interest of the girls... and for his relationship... for him to do so, too.

OK...as a practical matter. How would you proceed given an assumption you feel the marriage is worth salvaging?

Give wife time to think about it? Call her? Wait for her to call? Have a family meeting to sort this out? Let them stay gone for the next five weeks before girls leave for college (I mean the girls are enjoying moving in with bf's...they're getting what they want). Have no clue where wife is staying...haven't spoken to her?

As to the circumstances, we had calmed down by the time we got home. Wife packed her bags and said "I'm done." Walked out with nary a comment from me.

I don't think it's about who was right or who was wrong, but is about one person deceiving another. It's not really about the daughters at this point. It's about the interaction between Dueller an the missus.

I think the right answer really depends on what the situation really is.

Physically moving out of the house, not letting you know where she is going, is a very drastic move. Esp. when done after cooling down, in a calm manner.

It's hard to believe the relationship was 100% perfect, other than the "3 rules" issue. In her mind, this must have been just the last straw, in addition to other issues.

From your posts, IMO you perceive the overall health, strength and status of your relationship a lot better than she does.

Jim, if this gets smoothed over and you and wifey are back together soon (and we all hope that works out), at some point, there are guidelines you two need to set up (perhaps in the 6 months before they graduate... summers living at home are okay) and agree on to prevent "the move back," or at least shorten its duration.

Charge $50-75 a week rent per stepdaughter and keep those same house rules.

And don't wimp out and put that money in a savings account and give it to them when they move out like I have heard some parents do. That is not like the real world. Let 'em save up for their own security deposit, first and last month's rent, utility deposit, etc.

Most "stereotypes" exist because there is truth to them.

In any relationship (personal, business, etc.) that one values, insisting on your "100% correctness," is not the right thing to do, or in the best interest of the relationship.

As a step dad with 19 and 20 year old stepdaughters, I feel for you Dueller. Neither of my girls drink and the oldest will finish her 4 yr degee in 3 years. That said, I have been on the receiving end of mother/daughter deceit about relatively minor things like car and boyfriend issues. It bothers me to the core when it happens and these things are pretty minor compared to some things you have shared. You have been there for the kids, yet as young adults, they still choose to play games by playing the mom angle when it suits them.

I would not blame you if you chose to end it due to the constant lack of respect that your wife and kids have repeatedly shown you.

Jim, good luck. What a frustrating experience. You may want to save the marriage, but does your wife? If so, then I suppose you should have her come home and work through it. Although, my visceral reaction is to change the locks on the doors and throw her crap on the front lawn. Again, good luck.

I assumed the joke stereotype you were perpetuating was the one where the wife always gets her way because if the husband attempts to assert any leadership or rules at all, she pouts and/or generally makes his life miserable.

That is, indeed, a "joke" ...and not a relationship.

Jim is not insisting on his 100% correctness. That is a vast leap on your part to attempt to make that assertion.

He is justifiably angry at what happened... a violation of a simple rule and the dishonesty of his wife in an attempt to cover it up.

Wow. What a read. I could see you saving it just to stay with your wife. But I'd be done lifting a finger for those daughters forever. Checkbook closed.

Whether you believe the marriage is "worth salvaging" or not, she should be the one who makes the first call.

This gives her time to think about it... and she may even possibly come to the correct conclusion and apologize.

You said she said, "I'm done."

She may be. Or she may have just been trying to push your buttons and get you to beg her to stay.

Kudos to you for not doing so.

The ball is in her court.

If you want another opinion, seek the advice of a marriage counselor you respect or who comes with high recommendations.

But to call her would set up an improper power balance, IMO.

She and the stepdtr wronged you... primarily. If and when she calls to discuss this and hopefully admit she was wrong... that is the appropriate time for you to say you're sorry for losing your temper.

That is not a reason to call her first... hers was the bigger offense.

Dueller? Good luck...

Jim the only way this marriage can be saved is for you to shut yourself off emotionally and financially to those two girls. I am not sure you can do this. By your own admission this is the sole source of your conflicts.

OTOH, your wife may have made her decision already.

Tim...thanks for sharing. While we may disagree on politics;) I know you can be empathetic to my problems and I value your insight.

B'Oil...Interesting point about valuing the marriage. Changing the locks and crap on the lawn is a fun thought but not my style. LOL

Guys, I appreciate your input...even the comic relief:D

I'm in a quandry. I'm not too concerned from a financial standpoint if it is over. And if it is in fact over for wifey that makes the decison easier because there would be little reason for me to maintain any contact with any of them.

But if we do proceed and try to work thru it, what to do? I cannot see an attempt to salvage the relationship with wife without having a continuing realtionship with her children. There are things the children and I share that are very positive. It would be unfair to all of us for me to salvage the marriage at the cost of abandoning my relationship with the kids. That may be Pollyanna-ish but you get my drift. You can't put the toothpaste back in the tube.

Jim, it sounds as if that decision may have already been made for you....

I'm done = you finish it...
it was done long ago...
long ago she choose them..
the us, me & you, we ..never really entered the pic.
and as such the drama will never end or change..
if I want drama /or a play..
I go to a theater..not home...
so her fix is
having you dance on your tippy toes in your own home...
until the cubs want to have some fun...
and splat goes D once again..

Rika

Jim,

This has been a repeated theme since you started posting in OT. Rule have been made and agreed to all around, only to have the kids break them with mom's help. All kids will break rules. That's normal. They should be punished when rules are broken. It's the "mom's help" part that is the root of the problem. That is what needs to stop for the marriage to be salvageable.

Seems odd that she would just say "I'm done" and disappear. Like she already had a plan. If that's the case then you may have your answer.

If I ever have daughters, I sure hope they're ugly.

And lesbians.

For Dueller this started as a rule being broken. But that's no longer what it's about.

18 yr old stepdaughter broke a clearly understood rule and behaved like an immature irresponsible child. She poured the gas.

Mom lit the match.

Dueller tossed the match.

"No single raindrop believes it is responsible for the flood."

True, Legion. I am in 100% agreement that kids will break the rules. Its their job. Its a parents job to bust them.

When wife has included me in the loop we have handled things very well IMO. E.g., punishment from me may be no more than "That really disappointed me. Let's not do that again" or "You obviously had a big party when we werre gone. I don't recall giving you permission to have friends over and drink 4 cases of my beer in the garage fridge. You know I would not allow that when we are at home so why do you think you can do it when we're not here?" Its not like I go ballistic on them. I can be firm but I never shout at them. Certainly never any corporal punishment.

Let me reiterate...It was not so much the rule that was broken but my wife's complicity and lying that raised my ire.

Man, you have come this far with these kids, and they are almost out. As they grow up a little, they should grow out of this nonsense, and these incidents should go away. In the mean time, I hope you make it through this bad patch.

Who is going to pay for their college? I think that's a big issue, because if it is not you, then from here on forward, your relationship with the girls should only be as adults. That will make it a lot easier.

But as a lot of others have alluded to (some more directly than others), there are other issues going on here that you either have chosen to not give details on, or are not aware of.

Let's start with this: Does your wife work? What kind of work, and how many hours per week?

Dueller, I hate to say this, but from this and previous threads about these beautiful daughters, I think any "control" you had was merely an illusion.

Your choice, but I'd have been gone long ago.

Jim, why do you think your wife left, rather than scream and yell at you to leave?

I'm seriously curious... this is not a loaded question.

Additionally, isn't her leaving considered "desertion" by the law... or is that only if she stays gone for a certain length of time... years?

"As to the circumstances, we had calmed down by the time we got home. Wife packed her bags and said "I'm done." Walked out with nary a comment from me."

"You can't put the toothpaste back in the tube."

I think you have the answer to your original question in your own posts. You have been on this path for a long time and it may be hard to realize you have gotten to this point. But, here you are and it may no longer within your control to affect the outcome. It does not seem that you are even sure what outcome you want at this point.

I think you need more qualified help getting to that answer than you will find here.
Best of luck to you in understanding the way forward.

Jim

This sums it up. The step daughters might have lit the fuse (again) but now it is up to you. What do you really want? That is all that matters. In my marriage, I am the first one to break 90% of the impasses. Who is right/who is wrong is just pride & ego. I don't apologize - unless I should - but I open dialog. And it sounds like that is what should happen next. A dialog.

Sorry to hear this.

Ian

She owns a restaurant.

Jim, I feel for you. Being between a mom and HER kids (not yours) is an impossible spot.

Parenting works when you are partners. Right now you are adversaries. If you try to reconcile, you have to make her understand that. Not parenting to 18 year olds is not an option, you can't simply cut them out of the loop. Does your wife understand that conspiring against her husband is not acceptable? There's no way to make a good marriage out of lies and deception.

Good luck, whatever you decide. I can't offer any real productive advice, but I hope you can work it out.

This thread is pretty timely since I'm in the middle of divorcing my first wife over a similar set of issues (support hearing is tomorrow).

To me, it's more about the wife lying than anything else; it makes you wonder about what else she may be less than truthful about. That was the issue I had with my wife - she would lie about little things and manipulate to get her way in disagreements we'd have. Nothing big, from what I can tell but it got to the point where I couldn't trust a word out of her mouth. That, combined with the additional drama she placed on every disagreement (you raised your voice to me and you know I don't like it; therefore you intentionally hurt me), was the straw for me. Not that I'd raise my voice frequently but would do so when I caught one of her reversals.

Rules are rules and, if the wife agreed to them, she is bound to enforce them as an adult and partner. If she signed up for a set of rules that she didn't really agree with, that's her problem. She's a big girl and can speak up for herself.

Step parent or not, the girls live in the home of you and your wife and, as such, you get to set rules for them whether they're 19 or 39. Period.

You need to be able to answer the question of whether you trust your wife to tell the truth no matter what. If the answer is no, then your path is clear. At least it was for me.