How "high mileage" is too high?

[Schumi]

I just found this '93 968 for sale about 4 hours away right in my price range. I've been thinking about a 'new' car for a while. I thought about taking out a loan on a nice Boxster S next year. But every now and then a 968 pops up a craiglist and gets me all excited..


This one has an LSD, sport seats, 17" factory wheels...


and 186,000 miles.

Listing isn't too detailed, and pics are small.

The price is right though.


But man... 186k? The thing about that is... after that many miles.. everything is wearing.... all my cars have always been used.. I never buy new.. but I've never bought a car with more than 95K and even my most driven car (an 89 toyota coupe) only has 136k.

At 186k bushings are on their way out... plug wires are toasty. Distributor rotor is worn to dust, dampers are soft, etc etc.

Things like clutch and head gasket don't worry me- those are obvious costs with obvious fixes. It's those small things like rubbers and shocks and such- things which normally don't break... that start to break.


I guess I'm just thinking out loud here. It's almost 5AM, I'm up and looking at this car. It's nearly time I sell my 924S daily driver and upgrade. I keep thinking... for a few G's more, a boxster may be more fun though..

[Schumi]

I could have easily thrown this in the 944 technical forum but I'm aware of the 968's maintenance and repair points. I'm looking at this from a more broad, philisophical point of view, not pinned to the specific model or year here.


F it... maybe I should just get an old fox body five-0 and go have some drag strip fun...

[LakeCleElum]

If this price is right,
If you enjoy working on it
If you don't need it as a daily driver
If you don't plan on putting a lot of miles per year on it:

Why not.......I bought a used Toyota 4X4 Pickup once with 160,000 on it. Price was right, just had a trans overhaul and was in nice shape. I ran it up to 238,000 and sold for just $1,200 less than I paid.

[Zef]

Depend on which car...on a GM crap, any mileage is too high.....

[Porsche-O-Phile]

The engines and drivetrains can last well beyond that without issue although as you correctly state, it's almost certainly going to need something, and most "somethings" on a 968 are expensive. As I'm sure you know, the 968 shares a lot of parts with the rest of the 944 line, but there are also a lot of things it doesn't, and those items can get mighty expensive, mighty quick.

As a general rule though, I look at it as, "it's a Porsche - it's not going to be cheap" and "it's a mechanical device meant to be used, not a piece of sculpture to be kept in a stasis chamber".

If you like it and the price is right, go for it. And expect to have to replace stuff here and there. Comes with the territory.

[red-beard]

See if they have records. Also get a mechanic to check out the car. I had a Honda with 225,000 miles on it. Car looked and ran fine.

[creaturecat]

Originally Posted by Zef

Depend on which car...on a GM crap, any mileage is too high.....

Well, my GMC truck has 500000 kms. Just about to change the orig engine. Slight oil usage. Crappy GM.

[VincentVega]

Check for service to the cam tensioner and guide rails. I researched a 968 a while back and it seems ~100k miles is about their life. In your case they could ready again.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Maintenance records are everything. If the car has been well taken care of with no deferred maintenance, I wouldn't sweat it. Feel out the owner on the phone and try to determine if he's the over-maintainer type. I had a Saab 9000 Aero with 235k, but it was one owner with comprehensive records since new. Didn't burn oil, still had the original turbo and transmission.

The car is black, isn't it? If so, I know exactly which one you're talking about. He's come down on the price since last month. Judging by the ad he knows the car, most owners won't list option codes.

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by Zef

Depend on which car...on a GM crap, any mileage is too high.....

Gee, my 1986 El Camino has 275,000 miles. The engine has never been touched. It still runs great. I am going for 400,000 miles.

[targa911S]

ALL of my Dodge mini vans (4) have gone close to 300K with only a trans swap. Care is key.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

I'm going to go against the conventional wisdom and say that maintenance records help, but wouldn't be a deal killer one way or the other.

Honestly by the time a car gets to over 100k, certainly over 150k, there's probably regular things being done to it and - really - who takes their car to a mechanic (much less a dealer mechanic) for all the little things here and there that pop up at that point?

Records are nice and make it easier to document things (and they show evidence of a caring/meticulous owner, which is a "good vibe" thing), but I'd consider them a starting point and figure there have probably been other things done along the way that don't show up in the records or stack or receipts.

I'm actually pretty meticulous about keeping accurate records of what I do on my cars, but I admit I tinker more than the average person. I rotate tires regularly, I flush/change fluids. I replace little hoses and things that look like they might be problematic. I clean the heck out of things. I upgrade bits here and there as I can. I realize this is more than most people do, but it's not out of the ordinary for "Porsche guys" either. And most probably don't necessarily keep track of every single screw they turn in a spreadsheet like I do either.

I'd say the most important thing is to give the car a once-over. A thorough one. Research and know the things to look for that can rapidly turn into high-dollar repairs - things like transmissions, clutches, obviously compression and leakdown numbers, etc. There are many resources about the common failure items on 944s and 968s (delaminating hatches, timing belt failures, water pump failures, air conditioning system failures, etc.) Check all those things or if you're not comfortable with doing it, I suppose you can always fork out the money for a formal PPI.

A couple other things that come to mind are:

- check the condition of the sheet metal on the undertray next to the jack points - a lot of cars fall off of jack stands or lifts and buckle the metal here.

- check the bottom/front of the oil pan. A lot of 3.0L (and 2.5L) engines tend to leak oil from a faulty/worn oil pump drive sleeve seal. It quite often is overlooked at belt-change time and is a cheap "while you're in there" item or a very expensive "take it to my mechanic and have him fix it" item.

- check operation of the mirrors. 968 mirrors are quite expensive.

- do NOT (ever) accept "the a/c system just needs a recharge". That's a load of crap. Insist that the seller charge it and have it working properly then. If the "a/c system needs a recharge" it means it leaks and probably has a blown compressor or evaporator (big $$$)

- check the condition of the driver's seat bolster. This is a common wear item in older/higher mileage cars and replacement seats can get mighty expensive.

- spray a hose on the rear hatch and look for water penetration around the perimeter seal under the wing. There's a gasket there that likes to dry out and can be a nuisance to fix (albeit not that expensive)

- check the ball joints and engine mounts. They can both be a PITA to replace.

- check the tie rod ends

- check power steering reservoir hoses (they leak. Always.)

- check the area under the battery (corrosion-prone)

I'm sure I can think of more. There's a decent write-up on things to check on 944s on Clark's Garage; a lot of it probably crosses over to the 968.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

The 4-cyl watercooled P-car engines are stout as a brick outhouse. They're very, very robust.

Properly cared for and maintained, they're damn nearly indestructible. I know someone first-hand who had a 951 (admittedly a 2.5L but with all the added stresses and heat of turbocharging) with over 350,000 miles. Engine had never been opened. Original CLUTCH (yes, really) before some lady hit it and totaled it.

These cars are very solid. Neglect will add $$$ certainly, but they're excellent platforms.

[josephsc]

FWIW, I bought a 968 cab at 165k miles, in part because the previous owner kept up the maintenance and the price was right. The car now has 188k miles and runs well (though, slightly neglected because I have too many projects). I intend to keep driving the car for many more miles. But the motor does "feel" a little tired compared to the other 968 motors I have.

In my opinion, if you know the car and if you can wrench, "high mileage" cars are the playground for enthusiasts. There are other things to worry about than the number on the odometer.

But be forewarned -- if you buy this car, you'll have a tough time selling it down the road.

[Zef]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

Gee, my 1986 El Camino has 275,000 miles. The engine has never been touched. It still runs great. I am going for 400,000 miles.

Nice, but we're not in 86 anymore.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by Schumi

I just found this '93 968 for sale about 4 hours away right in my price range. I've been thinking about a 'new' car for a while. I thought about taking out a loan on a nice Boxster S next year. But every now and then a 968 pops up a craiglist and gets me all excited..


This one has an LSD, sport seats, 17" factory wheels...


and 186,000 miles.

Listing isn't too detailed, and pics are small.

The price is right though.


But man... 186k? The thing about that is... after that many miles.. everything is wearing.... all my cars have always been used.. I never buy new.. but I've never bought a car with more than 95K and even my most driven car (an 89 toyota coupe) only has 136k.

At 186k bushings are on their way out... plug wires are toasty. Distributor rotor is worn to dust, dampers are soft, etc etc.

Things like clutch and head gasket don't worry me- those are obvious costs with obvious fixes. It's those small things like rubbers and shocks and such- things which normally don't break... that start to break.


I guess I'm just thinking out loud here. It's almost 5AM, I'm up and looking at this car. It's nearly time I sell my 924S daily driver and upgrade. I keep thinking... for a few G's more, a boxster may be more fun though..

I saw this car too. That's not too high of mileage for a P-car.

[Deschodt]

Speaking as a 187000 miles SC owner here... There is probably not a single original "wearable" part on my car anymore... Brake lines, calipers, lights, relays, hoses, the all important suspension bushings, ignition switch, sensors, you name it... Even one clutch, dammit, I was hoping for 200K miles ! All that stuff has been replaced as necessary or as prudent... I have 100% confidence that this car is capable of another 120K miles without anything major happening to it, and I should mention those have been 187K breakdown-free miles ! Not once, not ever... It came close one time in my garage with a corroded fuel pump fuse- nice try Bubba ;-) It all comes down to maintenance... If you have proof of good maintenance, why not... Now the engine is a different story and that wears without being easily freshened... If a 968 4-pot is built like an SC, I don't see why not, espeically with more modern synthetic oils that I cannot/will not use in my old car... Do your due diligence with the engine condition, and price a rebuild, see if the deal is still palatable to you...

IMO, it's only scary because it's a fairly modern car, but that means it's been used and probably maintained well. I have no idea how many true miles are on my older cars (912 and BMW2002), but 200K on them would seem not such a big deal...

[Schumi]

Just got a response from the seller with hi res pics... dealer service since new. Needless to say-

anyone interested in my red 87 924S? new clutch, no issues, daily driver. I physically don't have room for both.

[Deschodt]

Cool, good luck ! And sorry your neck hurt too much to return to F1 at Valencia ;-)

[Schumi]

aaagh what am I thinking.... I told myself that if I was to get another 944-series car it would be a TUUUUURRRBO.

The choice between 968 and 944 turbo is too much. In one had you have a perfect iteration of a naturally aspirated sports car and one of Porsche's rarest full production models (the rarest?)..

and in the other hand a turbo is just begging for those power adders and 300rwhp..


I don't see many good condition 951's around here for sale, ever.