Waterboarding

[GH85Carrera]

This is interesting to see. If we keep political comments to minimum and it can stay in OT and not be forced into PARF.

This is amazing how fast it works!

Water boarding video (under controlled conditions) Pretty intense and a perfect example of the psychological aspects of interrogation. It's not what you believe but what the brain perceives. This reporter wasn't as smart as he thought he was. This isn't what he thought water boarding was like. If you want to know what all the talk is about, here it is. A journalist bet he could take 15 seconds of waterboarding..

[myamoto1]

Not pleasant, but not torture...

I’d be curious to know how long the typical water boarding “sessions” last with actual POWs

[9dreizig]

Incredible,, let's move it PARF cause you know there's gonna be some heated discussion.

[Geronimo '74]

Originally Posted by myamoto1

Not pleasant, ...

A bit of an understatement, don't you think??

I believe it is torture.

Torture, according to the United Nations Convention Against Torture, is:

...any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him, or a third person, information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in, or incidental to, lawful sanctions.
—UN Convention Against Torture

[legion]

By that definition, yelling at someone is torture.

[Geronimo '74]

If you do it intentionally, loud and long enough and it results in severe suffering, yes, it is. (according to the above definition)

(severe is of course a vague term, different interpretations are possible)

[URY914]

I wouldn't call it torture. The are no lasting effects IMHO.

[Geronimo '74]

Originally Posted by URY914

I wouldn't call it torture. The are no lasting effects IMHO.

Mental effects are hard to determine.
I think there could be long term, even permanent effects, if the sessions are intense and long enough.
The reporter was freaking out after 4, 5 seconds... that is saying something.
If you take it far enough, you'll do permanent (mental) damage, I think.
Heck, if you prevent someone from breathing long enough.... lights out, for good...

[myamoto1]

So based on the UN's definition, it's ok to shoot someone for the purpose of eliminating them from this earth, but if you yell at them too long, that's just mean and constitutes torture

This is war, bad things happen. Whatever happened to the saying, "all is fair in love and war"? If waterboarding or even torturing someone will save the lives of Americans or other allies, why not do it? Heck, if the guy you're waterboarding has the right info, you may even be able to end the war sooner, saving lives on both sides of the battle field.

Following that train of thought, what is more torturous? Causing discomfort to a select few, or forcing thousands to go back out onto the battlefield, not knowing if they'll return.

[Geronimo '74]

Hahaha, things are heating up a bit already...

If you don't like the UN definition, how about the dictionary...

tor·ture   /ˈtɔrtʃər/ Show Spelled [tawr-cher] Show IPA noun, verb,-tured, -tur·ing.
–noun

1.the act of inflicting excruciating pain, as punishment or revenge, as a means of getting a confession or information, or forsheer cruelty.
2.a method of inflicting such pain.
3.Often, tortures. the pain or suffering caused or undergone.
4.extreme anguish of body or mind; agony.
5.a cause of severe pain or anguish.


–verb (used with object)

6.to subject to torture.
7.to afflict with severe pain of body or mind: My back is torturing me.
8.to force or extort by torture: We'll torture the truth from his lips!
9.to twist, force, or bring into some unnatural position or form: trees tortured by storms.
10.to distort or pervert (language, meaning, etc.).

The definition is what it is, like it or not.



I said I think/believe that waterboarding is torture.
Sometimes the situation warrants just that. These are harsh times.
The well-being and safety of many/nations/millions outweighs the comfort of one/few.
My two cents, nothing more.


PS(this thread is not gonna last long here, foggetaboutit)

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by 9dreizig

Incredible,, let's move it PARF cause you know there's gonna be some heated discussion.

Yes, wish it away to the cornfield...

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by myamoto1

Not pleasant, but not torture...

I’d be curious to know how long the typical water boarding “sessions” last with actual POWs

It's only ever been used like 6 times.

[johnnywishbone]

anyone here been through S.E.R.E. training? how about before 1970? i did it in 1967.
i would assume ALL seal and spec-op personnel have been water-boarded as part of their training. just a thought.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by Geronimo '74

Mental effects are hard to determine.
I think there could be long term, even permanent effects, if the sessions are intense and long enough.
The reporter was freaking out after 4, 5 seconds... that is saying something.
If you take it far enough, you'll do permanent (mental) damage, I think.
Heck, if you prevent someone from breathing long enough.... lights out, for good...

Well i can say that i for one could care less.

[URY914]

Originally Posted by johnnywishbone

anyone here been through S.E.R.E. training? how about before 1970? i did it in 1967.
i would assume ALL seal and spec-op personnel have been water-boarded as part of their training. just a thought.

And would we really "torture" our own? I doubt it.

[GH85Carrera]

It is certainly a long way from what John McCain endured. THAT was torture.

[emcon5]

Originally Posted by johnnywishbone

anyone here been through S.E.R.E. training? how about before 1970? i did it in 1967.
i would assume ALL seal and spec-op personnel have been water-boarded as part of their training. just a thought.

I went in 87, and we were not waterboarded, although there was one there. There were also no spec-ops guys in the class, everyone in my class was a Naval Aviator, Flight Officer or Enlisted Aircrewman. The school I went to was run by Fleet Aviation Special Operations Training Group, not sure if they would have gone to the same school or they ran their own.

Looking at the UN definition though, it could probably be argued that a lot of the stuff they did to us was "Torture".

It wasn't of course.

[Hugh R]

Seahawk has been waterboarded as part of his military training. So I guess we can do it to our own sailors, but not suspected terrorists. OK

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by Hugh R

Seahawk has been waterboarded as part of his military training. So I guess we can do it to our own sailors, but not suspected terrorists. OK

Wouldn't that be part of the "Military Field manuals" then?

[Geronimo '74]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

Well i can say that i for one could care less.

So, if you can care less, you are saying that you do care a little??

Snipe, you big softy....



J/K I know what you meant