Teach me about miter saws - Page 2

James Brown · James Brown's Garage

I have one of these monsters, thought I better get a good one instead of several cheep ones. it's great! Also get a really good blade, or several, that makes superior cuts. It's a Bosch around $450.

304065 · 03-18-2010, 11:45 AM

Go to Fine Homebuilding - trusted articles, videos, books, and magazines on residential construction, home design, and renovation and read their reviews.

The ULTIMATE saw is the Festool Kapex. . . made in Germany. . . $1300. Does everything except make French fries.

I am looking at the Bosch, the sliding feature allows you to cut bigger stock with a smaller blade. I am considering the 10 inch double compound slider.

The advantage of double compound is that you can flop the saw over to the right as well as the left-- enabling you to cut crown in precisely the same orientation as it hangs on the wall. This will waste a lot less material due to making the wrong cut, which everybody does.

304065 · 03-18-2010, 11:48 AM

Also, get a good blade- FHB rated the Freud and the Dewalt as very good, with the Forrest and the Ridge taking top honors, but costing well over $120. The DeWalt is $32 and the Freud is $72.

look 171 · 03-18-2010, 12:15 PM

Here the deal with cheap equip. Steve, you are always adjusting and checking to make sure it sq. You get what you pay for. I say get a sliding compound saw if you are going to do crown. I learn my trick of the trade in high school when there were not too many sliding compound saws, where you have to cut them up right. there was the Saw Buck by Delta, remember those guys? One slip and goes your moulding or your finger on a regular chop saw if you are cutting a large a nd long piece. I really like the Hitachi 10" saw. I also have a Makita sliding saw that just would not quit. You have no idea, or I have no idea how many times my guys dropped that saw.

For a 10" chop saw, I really like the Makita. We run a couple of those. The slilding compound had gotta to be the Hitachi or makita. Some one had a Bosch slider and I tried it and really like it. You could beat that thing a little in the back of the truck. Well built.

The trick is in the blade with a half way good saw. For a ten inch saw, which is the most common. For general purpose cutting, I run a 60 tooth carbide saw blade with neg hook for a sliding compound saw (slider). The neg hook will reduce the blade from climbing on your wook piece to reduce injury. No need for a neg. hook blade on a reg saw. On some of the home owner saws, if you run an industrial blade, usually a wider kerf, they seem to be a little under power so you can't get a smooth cut. Youneed rpm to get a nice finish. I really like Systematic's thin keft neg. hook blade for the sliders. Tenryu makes a great blade for small portable table saws. I run Leitz's blade for larger table saws. Alternate top bevel grind is the best of both world combo blade for ripping and crosscutting on the 1 1/2 to 3 hp table saws.

Jeff

red-beard · red-beard's Garage

Steve, there are lots of pawn shops around Houston. Check them out for deals on power tools.

look 171 · 03-18-2010, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 304065

Go to Fine Homebuilding - trusted articles, videos, books, and magazines on residential construction, home design, and renovation and read their reviews.

The ULTIMATE saw is the Festool Kapex. . . made in Germany. . . $1300. Does everything except make French fries.

I am looking at the Bosch, the sliding feature allows you to cut bigger stock with a smaller blade. I am considering the 10 inch double compound slider.

The advantage of double compound is that you can flop the saw over to the right as well as the left-- enabling you to cut crown in precisely the same orientation as it hangs on the wall. This will waste a lot less material due to making the wrong cut, which everybody does.

We've had the Festool for 6 months now. It is a really really great tool. I am not sure if its more then half of my Hitachi? 5-10% better?

One of the reasons for a double compound saw is that you don't have to swing your stock. Often, they are really long pieces it is so much easier to change the angles then to run the piece out the window and back in for a cut then you cut the bevel the other way. Double compound saws were made to reduce swearing on the job.

A930Rocket · 03-18-2010, 01:44 PM

All good advice. I'd get a sliding double compound bevel saw next time. Makes life easier, as it does so much. Hitachi and Dewalt seem to be the favorites of the guys I use.

James Brown · James Brown's Garage

another good tidbits: ALL saws suck at dust collection (pun). There vacuum hose connections just dont cut it (another pun). So you need a big collector that sits behind the saw to catch all the chips. And you need a miter saw stand (not just a saw horse) some are moble, some fold into compact units, most have long beds to hold long stock. I use a DeWalt unit. Or you can use the saw to buld yourself one!

304065 · 03-18-2010, 03:12 PM

From the Rockler site-- about "hook"

Hook Angle
On most saw blades, the tooth faces are tipped either toward or away from the direction of rotation of the blade, rather than being perfectly in line with the center of the blade. Hook angle is the angle formed between the tooth face and a line drawn from the center of the blade across the tip of the tooth. On a blade with a positive hook angle, the teeth are tipped toward the direction of the blade's rotation. A negative hook angle means that teeth tip away from the direction of rotation, and a zero degree hook angle means that the teeth are in line with the center of the blade.

Hook angle affects blade operation in important ways. A blade with high positive hook angle (+20 degrees is a high hook angle) will have a very aggressive cut and a fast feed rate. A low or negative hook angle will slow the feed rate and will also inhibit the blade's tendency to "climb" the material being cut. A blade for ripping lumber on a table saw will generally have a high hook angle, where an aggressive, fast cut is usually what you want. Radial arms saws and sliding compound miter saws, on the other hand, require a blade with a very low or negative hook angle, to inhibit overly fast feed rate, binding, and the blade's tendency to try to "climb" the material.

DanielDudley · 03-18-2010, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by masraum

Opinion noted, but I just can't imagine that pricepoint being much of a saw.

I did our existing crown molding with the miter box and hand saw that I posted in the original post. Our crown molding is about 4-5" long. It was a huge pain in the arse.

I've got one of these.

I have to think that either the box or table saw would be as good as the $69 miter.

I've got a bit more budget to work with to get a better saw that will help me get better results and possible eventually cut flooring. I guess I'll have to do some shopping. I've been thinking that Craigslist may be a good place to work if I can find a nice enough model cheap enough.

That is actually a good cutting saw. If you are ever going to get serious about crown molding or wide boards, you will want a 12 inch sliding compound miter saw. Bosch, Makita, Dewalt, Hitachi are all good, in about that order, but you can't tell the difference by the cuts. 500.00 will secure you one at the right time.

And here's how it works. There is never enough money to by the good saw first, but always enough money to spend 250.00 on a cheaper saw, and then go out and get the right saw later, when you cannot do without it.

BTW, it is easier to set big crown moldings upright and make the cut then to lay it flat and set up a weird dual angle cut. If it wasn't, you could get by with a 10'' slider, and I have been using the same 10'' Makita for 11 years, day in and day out. You do get what you pay for.

RWebb · RWebb's Garage

I agree with starting cheap - a bare bones basic model. I bought a refurbed Ryobi for $40 thru Amazon - shipping included. I don't need anything else -- for now. You can flip stuff over to address the "lack of slidiness." It will still be light years better than yore lil' plastic box...

Learn to use it - there are many tricks - e.g. you can put the piece up against the blade lightly - push slightly and trim off a 1/40th inch or so at a time.

Don't forget to eliminate parallax when sighting on the blade either.

You don't need a laser - but it is faster.

and, yes, get a good trim blade for moldings, etc. - my Freud blade cost more than the saw, but I used an orange HD card for it and got that for free by using credit car points.

Once you've used it for a while - maybe several years - decide if you need to upgrade (or do what I did, use your neighbor's shop for the big stuff).

DanielDudley · 03-18-2010, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A930Rocket

All good advice. I'd get a sliding double compound bevel saw next time. Makes life easier, as it does so much. Hitachi and Dewalt seem to be the favorites of the guys I use.

Yeah, the Dewalt is built like a truck, and easy to set up. Most of the saws are belt drive. The Makitas are gear driven, but I have never seen a belt fail.

look 171 · 03-18-2010, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanielDudley

Yeah, the Dewalt is built like a truck, and easy to set up. Most of the saws are belt drive. The Makitas are gear driven, but I have never seen a belt fail.

I love belt driven saws. They are so quiet. My makita is still gear driven and it is a tank. I (well my guy) choped up a whole bunch of wide 12/4 Ipe for a stair case with that damn thing a few months ago. I can hear it crying for help.

Red88Carrera · 05:44 PM

I've owned a Porter Cable 3802 compound for about 8 years now. It's a very solid saw. If the saw is a decent brand/quality, it'll work fine for most homeowners. The magic is in the blade. I use dewalt or freud. Definately go with the 12" unit. I've tried the sliding compound saws and did not like them. A slider is very rarely needed, and nothing I can't do on my JET table saw.

look 171 · 03-18-2010, 05:43 PM

BTW, it is easier to set big crown moldings upright and make the cut then to lay it flat and set up a weird dual angle cut. If it wasn't, you could get by with a 10'' slider, and I have been using the same 10'' Makita for 11 years, day in and day out. You do get what you pay for.[/QUOTE]

No, I think it is 1000x easier to cut it flat. Doesn't matter how you cut it, it is still a compound miter cut. Plus, you can't cut a large crown up right on a 10" saw. It just will not fit. Do you remember those 100lbs large 14" Hitachi chop saws from the 80s? why do yu think they made such monsters back then, and only made an 8" sliding compound miter saw? I was in college back in the late 80s and I had to have that slider when hatichi came out with it. THey called me gadget man on the job. There's no easier way to cut large crown then on a sliding chop saw. We might just have the same Makita saw from 10 years ago. They were the first to come out with a 10" slider. Had to have that one too. We have cut many 8" stain grade crowns like that. That saw even cut 2 build up stain grade crown moulding jobs.

Red88Carrera · 05:56 PM

The easiest way to cut crown isn't flat on the table or upright on the fence. If you place it on a 45 resting on the fence and the table, all you need to worry about is cutting the miter. No compound saw required. The bevel takes care of itself. Check out the videos on youtube to see what I'm taking about. Inside and ouside corners can be done this way.

look 171 · 03-18-2010, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red88Carrera

The easiest way to cut crown isn't flat on the table or upright on the fence. If you place it on a 45 resting on the fence and the table, all you need to worry about is cutting the miter. No compund saw required. The bevel takes care of itself. Check out the videos on youtube to see what I'm taking about. Inside and ouside corners can be done this way.

right, the correct way is resting on a 45 degree on the fence. Only if its a 45 degree crown. That's cutting up right. hard to do that with a 16 or 18' 6" or 8" crown. Miter crown will open up over time at the joint. You have to cope it to reduce the chance of it opening up. Some jobs, you have to do it. It takes forever. You still need to perform the compound miter cut for reference, then grind it out with a small grinder or jig saw with a special base to get into tight corners. forget the hand coping saw.

Another factor to remember, you might have the perfct saw that cut your crown to the exact compound angels but the lump of dry wall mud or plaster will throw you for a loop. It always does it in the very corner where the heel of the moulding lands. If not, the damn ceiling is not flat. A little hump will screw it all up for you. Push, shove, and shim is your only friend, unless its coped.

sorry for getting off subect.

jeff

masraum · 03-18-2010, 06:09 PM

I should have known. I've gotten recommendations for every option. So it's still definitely up to me. Maybe I'll get 2 or 3.

Chocaholic · 03-18-2010, 06:27 PM

For a buck-fifty, this seems like a good way to go. Thoughts?

Harbor Freight Tools - Quality Tools at the Lowest Prices

look 171 · 03-18-2010, 06:45 PM

Steve, given the fact that you already told us how much you will be using the saw, I would suggest that you get a 10" or 12" non sliding compond miter saw and a 60 tooth Freud blade. you should be able to do most (I think 75-80 %) thing around the house. Hitachi or Dewalt should do the trick. under $200 bucks for the saw. 35-65 bucks for the blade. Good luck. Roybi should be a tad cheaper, but so is the quality. Not a big deal really.

Jeff