Teach me about miter saws

[drew1]

Thanks for reminding me to get mine in before the dew falls. Was using it this evening, a Rigid 12" compound.

I'm an industrial mechanic by trade & used to Rigid pipe wrenches & pipe machines for threading pipe & conduit. Rigid benders work well, too.

Seveeal years ago I bought reconditioned Rigid, hammer drill, sawzall, & compound miter. Had to get the drill worked on under waranty, bought a battery for the sawzall. I would recommend Rigid,

[turbo6bar]

Nesting the crown between the fence and base is the way I do it. Miter with saw and then cope with jig saw and Bosch 144/244 blade.

masraum, definitely go with dual compound. If you're only doing base, crown, and casing for doors/windows, one could make the argument for saving money and going with a plain miter saw. Once you get your feet wet and decide you're going to be doing this often, then spring for the $500+ sliding miter.

choc, the Harbor freight saw looks alright. I'd have to play with one before putting down the cash.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by turbo6bar

Nesting the crown between the fence and base is the way I do it. Miter with saw and then cope with jig saw and Bosch 144/244 blade.

masraum, definitely go with dual compound. If you're only doing base, crown, and casing for doors/windows, one could make the argument for saving money and going with a plain miter saw. Once you get your feet wet and decide you're going to be doing this often, then spring for the $500+ sliding miter.

choc, the Harbor freight saw looks alright. I'd have to play with one before putting down the cash.

have you seen of use the special base that's curved and it allows one to get the tip of the jig saw blade up to the very tip of the cut. Because the base is curved, you don't to adj it to 45degree. Another way is to use a 41/2" angle grinder and a see thru sanding disk and sand grind up to the line or bevel. sometime is much easier then the jig saw. Bosch is the king of jig saw BTW. How much do you do on your properties? I still love to do all my own finish woodwork, but I just don't have the time unless it is really tricky that I feel the guys can't handle.

[turbo6bar]

I haven't used the coping foot, but I plan to buy one soon. I've seen the angle grinder method, but haven't tried it. The biggest problem, for me, is coping where the crown goes to horizontal. You have to remove so much material and it's tough to get a clean joint.

I do agree Bosch jigsaws are great machines and a bargain for the price.

I don't do for-hire work, so the only trimwork I do is on rental properties or small projects, pro bono, for friends and family. I truly enjoy trim carpentry, as it matches my perfectionist tendencies. Unfortunately, I don't get to do much trim, because our projects encompass many types of work, and currently, we (brother and I are partners) only hire out painting. However, I plan to go crazy on the next house I build.

masraum, here's a link to the coping foot, Gary Katz Online, coping foot. If you plan to do much crown, you should consider it or a jig like the Easycoper, EasyCoper tool for coping crown molding cuts. I recommend you stick with the better branded saws and budget for extra doodads to make the work easier, quicker, better.
good luck,jurgen

[masraum]

Originally Posted by turbo6bar

masraum, here's a link to the coping foot, Gary Katz Online, coping foot. If you plan to do much crown, you should consider it or a jig like the Easycoper, EasyCoper tool for coping crown molding cuts. I recommend you stick with the better branded saws and budget for extra doodads to make the work easier, quicker, better.
good luck,jurgen

Holy crap! Hmm, so I've always done the miter/bevel cut thing, and yes, it doesn't work out leaving a pretty corner. The walls and ceiling aren't 100% true and my cutting with the plastic miter box sucks. This coping thing is pretty sharp. My confidence in my ability to get it done so it looks like it does in the link is not great. I guess I'd need to practice a bit, but the payoff in the end would be good.

Wow, very cool!

The wife already thinks I take too long to get stuff done, I can just imagine if I started doing that.

[dad911]

Originally Posted by Red88Carrera

The easiest way to cut crown isn't flat on the table or upright on the fence. If you place it on a 45 resting on the fence and the table, all you need to worry about is cutting the miter. No compound saw required. The bevel takes care of itself. Check out the videos on youtube to see what I'm taking about. Inside and ouside corners can be done this way.

It isn't always 45, depends on the crown profile. I place the crown so it is tight to the table & fence, then draw pencil lines on the table for both 45s. For the cabinet crown, which is always the same size, I made stops for the table to hold it in the correct position.

I bought a Dewalt 12" double compound to replace the 12" Rigid I had been using, which was stolen. Frankly, I liked the Rigid better, it had a slightly larger capacity, more convenient fence, and angle adjustment was smother. I typically cut crown inverted rather than using compound angles. If a wall isn't 90 degrees, it's easier to tweek a 45 cut than a compound cut.

Having said that, I bought a sub$100 Ryobi to trim my vacation house. It cut almost everything I had to do. And be creative with molding choices. Instead of 7" crown, you can use a smaller crown, with base & basecap to create a larger profile.

[turbo6bar]

Originally Posted by masraum

Holy crap! Hmm, so I've always done the miter/bevel cut thing, and yes, it doesn't work out leaving a pretty corner. The walls and ceiling aren't 100% true and my cutting with the plastic miter box sucks. This coping thing is pretty sharp. My confidence in my ability to get it done so it looks like it does in the link is not great. I guess I'd need to practice a bit, but the payoff in the end would be good.

Get the jig or the coping foot, and it's really not hard. It's a lot easier than trying to cope with a jigsaw held freehand.

The wife already thinks I take too long to get stuff done, I can just imagine if
I started doing that.

Quicker to do a good job the first time than a so-so job several times. If you think that takes time, try doing built-up profiles and wraping moulding around bullnose corners. Then we're talking about eating up time.

[MBAtarga]

I purchased that coping foot product for my bosch saw from the inventor at the IWF show in Atlanta several years back. I haven't gotten around to using it yet.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by MBAtarga

I purchased that coping foot product for my bosch saw from the inventor at the IWF show in Atlanta several years back. I haven't gotten around to using it yet.

I bought it before the internet was around. It works great, you just have to be careful because the angle of cut. I like the grinder method better. You have much better control especially when you are dealing with the monster 8" or 10" Mahogany crown. One slip up you have to get the 1/4" putty.

How's that IWF show in Atlanta? We get to go to Vegas here. What business are you in?

[look 171]

What the heck am I typing here. I am doing it half asleep. sorry fot the typos.


jeff

[myamoto1]

I have an older version of this and the wife didn't pay anywhere near that (x-mas gift ):

Shop Hitachi 10" 12-Amp Sliding Miter Saw at Lowes.com

After years of using a saw similar to the Delta vwbobd posted - I couldn't ever go back. However, for your needs, you probably don't need a 12" and don't need sliding, unless you're doing some really wide material.

[john70t]

I bought my first $100 Sears 10" a few years back. Seperating the lightweight base from the saw for transportation is only a couple screws/nuts, but they are a little tricky. Don't know if I'd want to do that twice a day.
I also promtly burned up the bag/lazer cutting outdoor pavers. It was dusty but it worked.

That said, any saw is a true timesaver. After climbing off the ladder and making the same 4th or 5th cut you'll thank yourself. Using the right blades makes the biggest difference.

The 10" is fine for trimwork, but it doesn't work so well on 2x8's. Depends if you need to spend a couple hundred more for something you'll only pull out of storage every five years.

[masraum]

I'll probably also eventually do some flooring and would like to be able to do larger cuts than just the shorter molding size that most of the 10" models cut, so I figured either a 10" sliding or a 12". I think a 12" in that price range will probably be a better made piece than a 10" sliding, so I think I'm going to go with a 12" compound.

I was thinking about a Bosch. I can get a factory refurbished 12" compound Bosch for $279 with free shipping and no sales tax. I've read the reviews. Most were good, but there were about 6 out of 39 on Amazon that were bad (1 or 2 out of 5). Some of the bad reviews seemed legit.

My other option is a Dewalt. There's a 12" single bevel (DW715) for $299 at Lowes, but HD will beat the price by 10%, so that puts it down to $269. Then another $50 for a Freud Diablo blade (same as my stacked dado blades for my table saw). There's also a dual bevel 12" (DW716) at Lowes for $339 (or $305 at HD after the price match). Checking the reviews for these, I think it was 3 bad out of 44. One of the bad reviews was "Amazon is charging too much, it's cheaper at Northen Tool & Equip". Another bad review was "the blade that it came with wasn't good enough." There was one other review of "the motor burned up in 4 months." That last one is the only one that seems legit, and even then, was it a factory defect, or was the guy trying to force the saw or in some other way misusing it?

So the Dewalt seems like the way to go to get a quality part.

I find that interesting, because I've heard/read a few folks over the years poo poo the "yellow power tools".

I guess that like anything else, some companies excel at making certain products and may not have the same quality across all of their products. I don't know.

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by masraum

I'll probably also eventually do some flooring and would like to be able to do larger cuts than just the shorter molding size that most of the 10" models cut, so I figured either a 10" sliding or a 12". I think a 12" in that price range will probably be a better made piece than a 10" sliding, so I think I'm going to go with a 12" compound.

I was thinking about a Bosch. I can get a factory refurbished 12" compound Bosch for $279 with free shipping and no sales tax. I've read the reviews. Most were good, but there were about 6 out of 39 on Amazon that were bad (1 or 2 out of 5). Some of the bad reviews seemed legit.

My other option is a Dewalt. There's a 12" single bevel (DW715) for $299 at Lowes, but HD will beat the price by 10%, so that puts it down to $269. Then another $50 for a Freud Diablo blade (same as my stacked dado blades for my table saw). There's also a dual bevel 12" (DW716) at Lowes for $339 (or $305 at HD after the price match). Checking the reviews for these, I think it was 3 bad out of 44. One of the bad reviews was "Amazon is charging too much, it's cheaper at Northen Tool & Equip". Another bad review was "the blade that it came with wasn't good enough." There was one other review of "the motor burned up in 4 months." That last one is the only one that seems legit, and even then, was it a factory defect, or was the guy trying to force the saw or in some other way misusing it?

So the Dewalt seems like the way to go to get a quality part.

I find that interesting, because I've heard/read a few folks over the years poo poo the "yellow power tools".

I guess that like anything else, some companies excel at making certain products and may not have the same quality across all of their products. I don't know.

A quality miter saw is one of those tools that it is worth going overboard on, the ability to precisely cut miters is directly proportional to the quality of the tool and blade

For wide pieces of wood a sliding saw in mandatory, compound is always nice. A friend and I did a huge(80' x 80' x12" w/ octagonal gazebo extensions at the corner) L shaped deck w/ a 10" Dewalt compound sliding saw, it was barely big enough for some of the diagonal cuts in the 8" wide planks

when I renovated my house I bought a cheap 10" compound slider at Lowes, big mistake, now that is just used for trash cuts. I subsequently bought a very good Makita 10" compound slider to do the bulk of the work, It was perfect for doing molding and such.

A key accessory is going to be the stand for the saw, The steel Ryobi is nice but the aluminum Dewalt nicer. You do need one of these or something similar.

If the light is right I do like the laser markers but when you are set up out doors ambient light often obscures the laser line

[look 171]

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

A quality miter saw is one of those tools that it is worth going overboard on, the ability to precisely cut miters is directly proportional to the quality of the tool and blade

For wide pieces of wood a sliding saw in mandatory, compound is always nice. A friend and I did a huge(80' x 80' x12" w/ octagonal gazebo extensions at the corner) L shaped deck w/ a 10" Dewalt compound sliding saw, it was barely big enough for some of the diagonal cuts in the 8" wide planks

when I renovated my house I bought a cheap 10" compound slider at Lowes, big mistake, now that is just used for trash cuts. I subsequently bought a very good Makita 10" compound slider to do the bulk of the work, It was perfect for doing molding and such.

A key accessory is going to be the stand for the saw, The steel Ryobi is nice but the aluminum Dewalt nicer. You do need one of these or something similar.

If the light is right I do like the laser markers but when you are set up out doors ambient light often obscures the laser line

Sun glasses with red lenses will help a lot.

[masraum]

So why do you need a miter saw table? If you've got a table/bench with enough space, would that do? Or what about making your own? I assume it just has to be sturdy.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by masraum

So why do you need a miter saw table? If you've got a table/bench with enough space, would that do? Or what about making your own? I assume it just has to be sturdy.

Yes. if it lives around the garage, I put casters with stops on it.

We have 2 sets of Sawhelper and their fence systems for the guys to use in the field. I like it a lot. It is durable and really tough and it sets up in minutes. actually in 30-40 seconds. The best part is that it stays accurate. In the shop, we have a slider, Festool, set up on a small rolling table with a short fence and a stop. We made our own.

The reason for a commerical unit is portablity and a stop that allows you to make repeated cuts without having to measure every piece. Stops are much more accurate for that purpose. Easier for storage as well.

jeff

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by masraum

So why do you need a miter saw table? If you've got a table/bench with enough space, would that do? Or what about making your own? I assume it just has to be sturdy.

It depends on what you are doing but you need a lot of room for lots of projects, so you end up setting up outdoors, 10' or more on each side isn't too much. And a stand has long extentions that support the end of the board well away from the cut. If you are lucky and have a huge workshop w/ fixed bench thats fine, most of us dont have that luxury

[gduke2010]

Originally Posted by masraum

There seem to be tons of options, blade size, compound, sliding, dual sliding, etc... Prices run from <$100 to >$500.

I do stuff around the house from time to time. I'm getting ready to replace a bunch of molding (baseboards and casing around windows and doors and some crown molding). Within a couple of years, I'll probably be redoing the molding upstairs.

I'd like a decent quality model with decent performance, but I'm not a carpenter, so I don't need a top of the line shop model.

I just don't want to spend $300 to later find out that I'd have been fine with a $150-200 model. I also don't want to spend $150 to later find out that I got junk.

From what I've seen, "compound" and "sliding" are things that you want, but I bow to your more experienced opinions.

After 12ish years in my first house, I'm tired of using


Thanks

Look at the 10" Hitachi at Cost Co. It's the best deal. The 10" Hitahi is the smoothest and most accurate of the compound-mitre saws and is reasonably priced compared to saws sold at other outlets. The only drawback is they are bulkly and heavier than other brands.

Sounds like you have alot of projects planned. I would recomend a good qaulity saw and stand. Also, you might be able to find another brand like Dewault or Mikata on Craigs List for a couple hundred bucks.

[gduke2010]

I ment to say 12" instead of 10". The 12" can handle most crown and base dimensions on a typical home. For example, you would be able to cut 4 1/2" crown or base without laying the blade over on a 12" compound mitre saw if you to mitre or cope the pice.