Assasination attempt in AZ is not about guns

[jyl]

I don't think we can really tell who is going to kill, at least not using any method that is practical in a nation of 300MM people.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by audiman08

I heard this guy "may" have been involved with a white.

This was released by DHS. Investigative reporters have already checked the membership lists of that group and he isn't part of it. He was a left wing, anachist, crazy nutjob. His parents should have had him commited.

[targa911S]

Even if you ban everything, crazy will always find a way.

[ODDJOB UNO]

well lets look at the wonderful country called.....................MESSIKO(mexico) and their UBER STRICT gun laws.




sure as hell doesnt appear to be working there. hmmmm................33 people MUR-DURRED(red-rummed) in the PAST FEEKING 4 DAYS in acapulco alone!

[DARISC]

Originally Posted by red-beard

...He was a left wing, anachist, crazy nutjob.

No, no, no! He had a well worn copy of Mein Kampf. He must be a right wing, Nazi, crazy nutjob.

[Racerbvd]

OK guys, this pretty much answers the question on why he is a nut, and as a few others and I speculated, there was a reason he was a loner..

Randy married Amy Totman in 1986. He became a stay-at-home father after Jared was born in 1988, while Amy worked for the county, according to ABC News. Neighbors said the Loughner household became more isolated from them as Jared, an only child, grew older."There was times when we'd be out with other neighbor kids, and Jared wouldn't be allowed out. He'd be watching from the window or door," Rick Dahlstrom told ABC. "They all became very isolated. Randy was isolated, Amy wasn't out anymore. Something changed. They just kept to themselves."

One thing most of us agree on is that kids need to be kids and exposed to other kids. From this new info, looks like he is a product of his Father...

[McLovin]

Originally Posted by ODDJOB UNO

hmmmm................33 people MUR-DURRED(red-rummed) in the PAST FEEKING 4 DAYS in acapulco alone!

They have Sarah Palin in Mexico too???

[livi]

Many people are not surprised that this happened and some even seem to figure that it is something we have to accept as an expected random abnormality in a society. Thats what perhaps scares me the most.

[DARISC]

Originally Posted by livi

Many people are not surprised that this happened and some even seem to figure that it is something we have to accept as an expected random abnormality in a society. Thats what perhaps scares me the most.

It is scary, Markus. But one must consider that we number 300mm souls. I believe Sweden numbers 9mm?

Expected random abnormality, perhaps. But the issue here that many are concerned about is the vitriolic rhetoric that has come to permeate our culture, and the effect that it might have in triggering those mentally unbalanced among us into commiting acts of violence.

All things being equal, we might not have, by virtue of our numbers, a higher percentage of mentally ill people than you do - I don't know. I do know that, to me, the vitriolic rhetoric is very disturbing and counterproductive to our moving ahead.

[1990C4S]

Originally Posted by DARISC

Consider a classroom full of eight year olds.

As the school year progresses, there is an increasing number of attacks wherein an angry studenl stabs another student, or the teacher, with a pencil.

......

How is the above scenario not analogous to what happened in Tucson?

A more relevant comparison would be if all the kids had pen knives to sharpen their pencils, and the kids were stabbing each other with the pen knives. And the school board wanted to put a pencil sharpener in each school, thereby making pen knives 'non-essential'. But some parents wanted their kids to have pen knives for self defense, in case the one crazy kid went nuts with his banned pen knife.... and then only delinquents had pen knives...

Originally Posted by Christien

I really think the US is a more violent society....

Root cause, IMO.

[Jeff Higgins]

I really don't think our time is any more violent than any that preceded it. Actually, I believe we are living in far less violent times than at any point in human history. I think such incidents of violence are reported much more widely, much more rapidly than at any time in the past, which gives the illusion (to some) that we are living in more violent times than we really are.

One aspect of this shooting that has not been discussed is that of personal responsibility for one's own safety and well-being. And that of one's family. The pure randomness of this act underscores the fact that these events are, well, completely random. That, and I'll wager that mere seconds passed between the first shot and the last. Hardly time to pull out a cell phone and dial 911, much less explain to the operator (assuming one actually gets through right away) what is happening. There were clearly no police officers close enough to do anything, even at an organized event such as this.

You all know where I'm going with this. While nothing in life is certain, I'll just put this out there: If a guy like Rick Lee, or myself, had been standing right there, this clown may not have gotten even his second shot off. Unless I was unlucky enough to be the first one hit, I'm relatively certain I could have had some positive impact upon the outcome of that day.

Problem is, these psychotics can operate with relatively low risk. Even in an open carry state, with a very high number of gun owners, the chances of having a legally armed citizen on hand are minimal. Things could have ended very differently if there were only one...

[ODDJOB UNO]

the worst case scenario ALMOST occurred with a AZCCW guy coming out of walgrens and saw man with a gun. the man with the gun had just taken the gun from bad guy.


scarey scarey scarey nano seconds to make decision to shoot or not for CCW guy.



could of should of would have, is evident right here. and all WE CAN DO is LEARN from this situation as CCW holders if the situation arises. and how to handle it and make correct ABSOLUTE DECISION ON WHO THE BAD GUY IS OR ISNT!



this scenario has bounced thru my head countless times wayyyyyyyyyyy before this happened saturday. and its something that really does boggle the mind.



it is not trench warfare, it is not cowboys and indians, its not grey uniforms vs green uniforms. it is NOT an OBVIOUS ENEMY until your brain can fathom who is good and who is bad.



the WSJ published the account of the AZCCW holder and what was going thru his mind at the moment this happened.



not any different from afghan or iraq or vietnam. bad guys dont wear BAD GUY NEON SIGN ON FOREHEAD!

[Christien]

[QUOTE=Jeff Higgins;5777463]I really don't think our time is any more violent than any that preceded it. Actually, I believe we are living in far less violent times than at any point in human history. I think such incidents of violence are reported much more widely, much more rapidly than at any time in the past, which gives the illusion (to some) that we are living in more violent times than we really are.[quote]

Agree.

The pure randomness of this act underscores the fact that these events are, well, completely random.

Disagree. What was random about it? There was nothing at all random about it. Random is the guy walking by and shooting for no reason. While this may not have been completely premeditated, everything that's coming out in the news about this guy's background, as well as the divisive nature of politics getting worse and worse, points to something like this happening.

[livi]

Sweden is not any better these days. Ministers killed while shopping, suicide bombers in the busy streets - despite very restrictive gun laws. Maybe we should rewind to the 60īs and smoke a peace pipe, grow long hair and just fluff around a little.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by Christien

Disagree. What was random about it? There was nothing at all random about it. Random is the guy walking by and shooting for no reason. While this may not have been completely premeditated, everything that's coming out in the news about this guy's background, as well as the divisive nature of politics getting worse and worse, points to something like this happening.

I don't think you understand the concept of "random".

Our currently "divisive nature of politics" had absolutely nothing to do with this random event. All indications are that this guy had some deeply held resentment stemming from a past encounter with this woman, that he was psychotic. There is no indication whatsoever that he was driven by any of today's political rhetoric.

All of that was simply the left-leaning media pundits first cut on what they think happened, what they think motivated him. They were all giddy at the prospect of having a right-wing whack job influenced by a right-wing luminary to do something so heinous and despicable. Turns out if he had any leanings at all, they were canted more left than right. They were wrong.

So, what do our media pundits do when they are wrong? Why, they repeat the story until it soaks into the public consciousness and becomes "right". We've seen it time and time again.

[enzo1]

Originally Posted by jeff higgins

i don't think you understand the concept of "random".

Our currently "divisive nature of politics" had absolutely nothing to do with this random event. All indications are that this guy had some deeply held resentment stemming from a past encounter with this woman, that he was psychotic. There is no indication whatsoever that he was driven by any of today's political rhetoric.

All of that was simply the left-leaning media pundits first cut on what they think happened, what they think motivated him. They were all giddy at the prospect of having a right-wing whack job influenced by a right-wing luminary to do something so heinous and despicable. Turns out if he had any leanings at all, they were canted more left than right. They were wrong.

So, what do our media pundits do when they are wrong? Why, they repeat the story until it soaks into the public consciousness and becomes "right". We've seen it time and time again.

+1

[DARISC]

Originally Posted by livi

...Maybe we should rewind to the 60īs and smoke a peace pipe, grow long hair and just fluff around a little.

Rewinding to the 60's might be wishful thinking. But if you ever get over on our left coast, drop on in. I've got a pipe and there be lottsa SOCAL fluff at the nearby beach, bouncin' 'round in their bikinis.

And I gots a MEDICAL MARYWANNA CARD TOO!!

[Superman]

To me, one of the most disturbing aspects of this story is that nobody shot the assassin in the head. If random gunslingers were routinely stopped by a round from an armed civilian, then they might find some other way to express themselves. ......and I'm a flaming liberal. Go figure.

[Superman]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

Problem is, these psychotics can operate with relatively low risk. Even in an open carry state, with a very high number of gun owners, the chances of having a legally armed citizen on hand are minimal. Things could have ended very differently if there were only one...

Well put. I concur.

[ODDJOB UNO]

oh jeff........................YOU should LIVE HERE and listen to the NON STOP media go at this.


our cast of lokal characters:

tucson sheriff and his ideas.

shurf joe


pinal county shurf babeau and his ideas


all the lokal crime shrinks

ch 3 abc

ch 5 CBS

ch 10 fox

ch 12 nbc

the lokal underground rag the phx new times

all the witness's

all of the governors office

the federal courts

any and all politcos from near and far republican democrat

every doctor on duty at u/a med center

every nurse on duty at u/a med center

the neighbors of the bad guy

the classmates of the bad guy

the teachers at pima community college of the bad guy



and im sure by now any and all illegal migrants,stray dawgs, transients and anybody else that was breathing air in the southwest has or WILL BE INTERVIEWED.............3-TIMES!



it IS a MEDIA CIRCUS! and LOTS of WRONG INFO being printed or stated.