Has this "really" changed everything?

[sc_rufctr]

I'm sure most people here have seen this thread but I just have to ask the question.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/601291-tesla-motors.html

Is the GAS car or Hybrid now redundant?

An affordable sedan that doesn't look like a POS.
It can be ordered with three different battery configurations.
Even the 120 Mile version would be fine for me. I would get about two days travel on that.

What's the catch???

Bye Bye Prius. You won't be missed...

[masraum]

I just don't see electric cars as a useful alternative. They are quiet, but they don't really provide any other benefit, do they? What's the point? Less fuel used and/or fewer emissions? Tell that to the power plant that's generating the electricity.

They are more complex, and I suspect more expensive to repair.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

I'd buy one.

[sc_rufctr]

@Masraum... With a range of a claimed 300 miles and the performance figures quoted I do see them as a real alternative.

But the battery life cycle has me concerned. How much are replacement batteries worth? Could that off set any savings?

On the positive side I do see a new aftermarket segment for these cars.
Some people may be willing to pay for higher performance batteries and motors for their cars after the OEM ones have worn out or aren't performing at their best.

[kach22i]

Beautiful car, they only had the welded aluminum chassis buck at NAIAS this year though.

Have you seen the swapping battery videos? Test stations all over the world and they want to bring them to the USA this year.

Found this; Shai Agassi and Better Place
Better Place | The Global Provider of EV Networks and Services.

Battery switch technology demo
YouTube - Battery switch technology demo

[red-beard]

Both the Compressed Natural Gas and Battery cars have a similar problem of recharge time. My thought is a universal module that is replaced/exchanged, like the way we exchange propane tanks.

All of these cars cost too much and they use electricty produced, at least in this country, by coal.

[romad]

A Volt passed me on the hwy yesterday doing about 75, it already had a soccer ball team sticker on it.

[svandamme]

Originally Posted by kach22i

Beautiful car, they only had the welded aluminum chassis buck at NAIAS this year though.

Have you seen the swapping battery videos? Test stations all over the world and they want to bring them to the USA this year.

Found this; Shai Agassi and Better Place
Better Place | The Global Provider of EV Networks and Services.

Battery switch technology demo
YouTube - Battery switch technology demo

That's like all cute ans **** in an ideal world where there is no rain or mud

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by svandamme

That's like all cute ans **** in an ideal world where there is no rain or mud

I've always like the trays which slide out the front/back/side better myself.


They are testing in Canada right now.
http://www.betterplace.com/experience

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by red-beard

Both the Compressed Natural Gas and Battery cars have a similar problem of recharge time. My thought is a universal module that is replaced/exchanged, like the way we exchange propane tanks.

All of these cars cost too much and they use electricty produced, at least in this country, by coal.

There are several natural gas stations in my area. How long does it take to typically take to refill at a CNG station?

I keep waiting for the conversions to come down in price some. I can see going to a dual fuel setup. CNG for around town and good old gasoline for road trips.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

There are several natural gas stations in my area. How long does it take to typically take to refill at a CNG station?

I keep waiting for the conversions to come down in price some. I can see going to a dual fuel setup. CNG for around town and good old gasoline for road trips.

That works if CNG is priced better than Gasoline, and it is. But the CNG has an octane rating of about 120, so you can run higher compression. CNG is also harder to ignite, so if you're going to be running Gas for a long time, your plugs might be too hot.

And finally, without modifiying the engine, CNG typically produces lower HP. Look at generators and the ratings on Propane vs. Natural Gas.

My dad and I were talking about some related issues on Gas Turbines over the weekend. He worked on some "offshore" platforms in Lake Maricibo in the late 1950s/Early 1960s. They were running Westinghouse Gas Turbines running off the raw associated natural gas. After a while, they started having problems. The company started shipping the gas to shore, stripping out the LNG (Propane, butane, ethanes), which they could selll, and sending the Methane back to the platform. The GTs hadn't been setup for Methane and ran poorly, especially for starting.

[cashflyer]

Two things concern me:
lithium
neodymium

The range doesn't bother me, as 90% of the trips I take are within 100miles of home. I can plug it up each night. I guess hotels will probably have to issue extension cords at check in.

Will Tesla make a pickup truck model?

The electricity doesn't concern me too much if we move to more nuclear and less coal & oil burners. But then there's the whole radioactive waste issue.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by sc_rufctr

@Masraum... With a range of a claimed 300 miles and the performance figures quoted I do see them as a real alternative.

But the battery life cycle has me concerned. How much are replacement batteries worth? Could that off set any savings?

On the positive side I do see a new aftermarket segment for these cars.
Some people may be willing to pay for higher performance batteries and motors for their cars after the OEM ones have worn out or aren't performing at their best.

Sure, performance-wise, it may be an option, but to switch to something like that, I want/need a reason. What's the reason for switching? I just don't see enough extra benefit to motivate the switch.

I guess one emissions related motivation is that instead of having to monitor and regulate several million pollution generators, they would only need to worry about the plowed plants. Still, with so many being coal fired, I'm not sure we're ready yet.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by cashflyer

Two things concern me:
lithium
neodymium

The range doesn't bother me, as 90% of the trips I take are within 100miles of home. I can plug it up each night. I guess hotels will probably have to issue extension cords at check in.

Will Tesla make a pickup truck model?

The electricity doesn't concern me too much if we move to more nuclear and less coal & oil burners. But then there's the whole radioactive waste issue.

The last company that I worked for was a power company, up until a recent purchase, the company was essentially 100% natural gas fired plants. They also had a large geothermal complex in Cali. Ey had no coal, and I'm pretty certain no oil. Most of the plants that were purchased last year were coil or oil, but I believe they have plans to convert them to natural gas.

[romad]

can you imagine the surge between 5 and 7pm every night.....the current grid could not take a massive grownth of these vehicles any time soon. Problem with nikes is they can not handle surge, you will alway need an accumulator plant, coal or gas.

Nothing is free and modern society will never be green, the very nature of technology is comsumation of natural resources. The horse left the barn years ago, we can only slightly slow down this trip to the end.

[spuggy]

I see the big problem with hybrids or electric cars being the huge carbon footprint to make them (those expensive and diffcult-to-obtain rare earth materials get shipped all over the world for processing before being built into a car), the expense and complexity of the power train, and the battery life issue. Oh, and the recharge time and range is a PITA for pure electric as well.

In comparison, the hydrogen fuel cell seems to work really well. Same fuelling model we're all familiar with from gasoline cars, same re-fuel time and acceptable/comparable range/performance, just a different pump. And the fact that the exhaust is water. And hydrogen is pretty easy to come by, seeing as how 2/3rds of the planet is covered with water.

Jay Leno likes it as well, probably because he lives close enough to the only hydrogen refuelling pump that it is useful, lol.

I guess all those car companies must have some reason they're all so avidly pursuing the other options, but I have no clue what those are. I expect it's profit. Or jumping on the "green" thing. (Like the greentards that advocate wind farms. Where the wind farms take 20 years to offset the carbon footprint of building them, but the expected service life of the turbine is 10 years. But it's green. Won't anyone think of the children?)

Heck, I read in Reader's Digest (so it must be true) that Bill Lear (inventor of the Lear jet and the 8-track cartridge) developed a steam car in the 70's that worked just fine, but "they" said people would never accept a 2 minute wait to build up steam from cold. I owned a Citroen in the 90's that pumped hydraulic fluid into the suspension from a cam-driven pump to raise the car to normal ride height and if you drove away before it was finished, you'd trash the cam/pump (I forget) and have to remove the motor to replace, and/or just bottom the car out all over the place. That took 90 seconds to get it's act together - there were all kinds of reasons to hate that car, but waiting 90 seconds before you could drive away wasn't in the top 20 or 30...

[Gogar]

The catch to the electric car is, as already mentioned, the fact that the electricity comes from largely coal-fired electricity supply. The net reduction in horrible gases emitted into the atmosphere is negligible, because the power plants have to produce more electricity to charge up the cars.

In addition, if the electricity supply 'grid' cannot even support the nation's current energy needs in the summer (i.e. 'rolling blackouts'), how do you suppose it will handle the demands of hundreds of thousands of electric cars plugged in in the driveway?

If politicians were actually concerned about lowering greenhouse gases emitted into the atmosphere, they would stop eating cows.
Me, I'll drive less and still eat cows.

[romad]

Bill lear invented 8 track....well no one is prefect

[tcar]

Originally Posted by romad

Bill lear invented 8 track....well no one is prefect

He made his first big money in his 20's, developing the first workable car radio in the 20's.

Called it a 'Motorola' (motor + victrola), later sold it and the name...

[teenerted1]

that tesla is slated to be over twice the cost of the current 2 seater.
so $200k+ is a major turn off for most.