Freon alternatives?

A930Rocket · 05-22-2011, 06:51 PM

I'm going to evacuate and recharge the 91 318is in a few days and was wondering about freon alternatives. I'm sure it's R12, but need to verify.

I've used DuraCool in the past with success, but does anyone have experience with alternatives that don't cost a fortune?

legion · 05-22-2011, 06:54 PM

Amonia.

billybek · billybek's Garage

Probably R134a in 1991.

Scott R · Scott R's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by billybek

Probably R134a in 1991.

mid 92' was the cutover year, with cars being sold for 93' equipped with r134.

billybek · billybek's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott R

mid 92' was the cutover year, with cars being sold for 93' equipped with r134.

You might be right. I was thinking the European cars might have changed over earlier.

A930Rocket · 05-22-2011, 07:53 PM

I checked the engine bay and did not find a freon sticker. A kook at the manual or in-line should determine that.

Anybody else with ideas?

Scott R · Scott R's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by A930Rocket

I checked the engine bay and did not find a freon sticker. A kook at the manual or in-line should determine that.

Anybody else with ideas?

You can tell by the fittings on the charge ports. Small ports that are threaded; for R12 vs larger quick-connect nipple style on the R134 systems. But unless it has been converted the 91 318 is R12. You could be in for some expensive repairs sadly. Plenty of threads here on pelican for alternate gas sources and what to do with these r12 systems.

techweenie · techweenie's Garage

I used something called Freeze 12. Cheap and works great.

Not ready to convert just yet...

LWJ · 05-22-2011, 08:21 PM

I think it is called DuraCool. It is mostly propane with a little isobutane mixed in. Works excellent. Cheap! You car may be a little more volatile with it but I expect not much.

Good luck.
Larry

Joeaksa · 05-22-2011, 08:43 PM

Have used ES-12 for years and very happy with it. It mixes with R-12 and its molecules are larger than R-134 so it does not leak out as fast if you have a leak.

Cools well and thats a must here in the desert in the summer.

A930Rocket · 05-23-2011, 01:38 AM

Thanks for the info.

I saw a small and large threaded fitting. One (largel) went from the compressor to the interior and one (small) from the receiver dryer tirades the interior.

It blows cool, but not cold. Compared to the 911, it's artic cold. With a 20 year old car, I'm sure it needs some work. As mentioned, hopefully a new receiver dryer, an evac and new freon will get it colder....

Quote:

You can tell by the fittings on the charge ports. Small ports that are threaded; for R12 vs larger quick-connect nipple style on the R134 systems. But unless it has been converted the 91 318 is R12. You could be in for some expensive repairs sadly. Plenty of threads here on pelican for alternate gas sources and what to do with these r12 systems.

Scuba Steve · 05-23-2011, 03:05 AM

Duracool worked well for my 924S, but I converted the wife's Volvo to 134a / changed out all the o rings.

Better get on it... this week looks like a hot one.

red-beard · red-beard's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott R

mid 92' was the cutover year, with cars being sold for 93' equipped with r134.

My 1993 Honda Accord was R12 and required conversion.

Scott R · Scott R's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by red-beard

My 1993 Honda Accord was R12 and required conversion.

Maybe a 92' sold as a 93?

krystar · 05-23-2011, 06:21 AM

Propane

Scuba Steve · 05-23-2011, 07:17 AM

Production and importation was banned in the US on 1/1/96.

Zeke · 05-23-2011, 07:50 AM

Freeze 12 is a solution, but renders the existing R 12 un recoverable as I suspect the other substitutions do. If you're a greenie, get the real R 12 out and recharge with all Freeze 12. At least tell any shop that you may use down the line that you have adulterated your coolant.

Scott R · Scott R's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by milt

Freeze 12 is a solution, but renders the existing R 12 un recoverable as I suspect the other substitutions do. If you're a greenie, get the real R 12 out and recharge with all Freeze 12. At least tell any shop that you may use down the line that you have adulterated your coolant.

If done correctly Freeze 12 and the others like it all have their own special fittings. That's how you tell whats in the system when you go to evac it. If I suspect a mix or a r12 substitute in the system I will not recover it. It costs me a good deal of money to have my r12 tanks flushed and tested after I accidentally capture one of these blends in my recovery system.

Joeaksa · 05-23-2011, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milt

Freeze 12 is a solution, but renders the existing R 12 un recoverable as I suspect the other substitutions do. If you're a greenie, get the real R 12 out and recharge with all Freeze 12. At least tell any shop that you may use down the line that you have adulterated your coolant.

Any commercial shop will test the gas in the system before they do anything. If its not pure R-12 or R-134 then they will refuse to work on the vehicle.

Henry Schmidt · Henry Schmidt's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by krystar

Propane

+1 propane works great....