Fuel efficient autos

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by tevake

We drove a VW Passat TDI wagon about 2K miles all over England last summer, and it was loaded with four of us plus baggage and got great mileage I'd guess 35+mpg . usually had to stop once or twice to clean the windshield between fill ups.
It took some getting used to the driving characteristics, very little grunt down low revs.
It did very well at highway speeds.

Cheers Richard

Must be a different engine. The US TDI has 236 ft/lbs of torque - tons of grunt down low. What you don't have is a bunch of hp on the top end.

[kundensport]

TDI rules,

[Noah930]

Like others have said, if you're basing your decision on pure economics, it's cheaper to get a non-hybrid than a hybrid. The price premium of the hybrid powertrain exceeds the savings in gasoline consumption unless you're planning on holding the vehicle for many, many years.

FWIW, over the 3 years and 45K miles I've had my gasoline-powered Civic, I probably average around 35-36 mpg. On the highway I can eke out up to 42 mpg on a tank. I don't think I've ever gotten lower than about 32 mpg. The hybrid Civic would have cost me about $5-6K more, comparing purchase prices.

But as jyl pointed out, driving style counts. I work at getting good mileage in the Civic (while keeping up with the flow of traffic). When I lend the car to my wife or others, I see the mileage drop down by several mpg. I always shake my head and wonder when I see Prius (or other hybrid) drivers floor their cars from stoplights.

[tevake]

Originally Posted by nostatic

Must be a different engine. The US TDI has 236 ft/lbs of torque - tons of grunt down low. What you don't have is a bunch of hp on the top end.

I'm pretty sure it was a different engine. Seems to me that that it was a 1.6 turbo. At any rate it was gutless under about 2,500 revs. then it would come on nicely. I remember thinking at the time that it was the most car with that small of an engine that i had come across. Sure got good mpg!!

Cheers Richard

[rob justice]

My tdi 2.0 Golf averages 60 mpg on the daily trip to work. I usually sit at 75 almost the whole journey. Many of the new smaller tdi's over here are getting close to 80mpg. The new ford fiesta appears superb on the fuel.
Hybrids just seem a waste of time and expense.

[Drisump]

Originally Posted by rob justice

My tdi 2.0 Golf averages 60 mpg on the daily trip to work. I usually sit at 75 almost the whole journey. Many of the new smaller tdi's over here are getting close to 80mpg. The new ford fiesta appears superb on the fuel.
Hybrids just seem a waste of time and expense.

I think you're right (about the diesel vs.hybrid question), the modern small diesels for passenger cars are amazing. Their driving dynamics, cost and economy make them generally a more compelling deal than a hybrid. Unfortunately unlike Europe, there are very few diesel cars available in our car market. I was recently in Europe and saw the cornucopia of diesel powered passenger cars available over there, Corolla's, PT Cruisers, Accords, Mini's.......almost everything seemed to have a "D" or "TDI" version. If fuel prices continue on their multi year trend (up), seems to me that this is the way to go. Cheers

[RWebb]

once you settle on some choices, take the delta in price and your annual mileage to compare with what fuel price will make it a break even

also realize that gas hogs will lose value rapidly as fuel prices escalate, so there are resale/trade-in issues also


generally, a hybrid makes more sense in town or on hilly secondary roads, in the mtns. etc

diesels make more sense on straight fwy. shots, esp. long-distances and if built right, for longevity

if you do choose a compression ignition motor, why not just buy a used Benz?

[1990C4S]

Originally Posted by RWebb

if you do choose a compression ignition motor, why not just buy a used Benz?

Because they are huge and don't get the mileage of the smaller/lighter VW's.

Expect 35 MPG (at best) in Mercedes, which is well under his target.

[RWebb]

yes, but it is also much cheaper than a new car

you can buy a nice D going back to the early 60's that runs like a top

[pavulon]

'09 Jetta TDI DSG wagon owner. 35K miles. Oil changes and fuel only. DSG requires $250 service at 40K miles. So far, it has been a really good car but is run in the summer only (subie outback has winter duty). There are several TDIs sitting on the work parking lot year around.

[jyl]

Not negative on TDIs at all, I love the diesels in Europe, just noting:
- UK gallons are 20% larger than US gallons, so UK MPG figures are misleadingly high if compared directly to US MPG figures. Take every UK MPG figure and cut by 20% for American readers.
- The more stop-start city traffic you drive in, the more benefit you get from the hybrid systems, which turn the engine off when coasting and stopped, and use regenerative braking.
- Small diesels in the US have less performance than you might think. For example, the smallest-engined Golf TDIs in the UK do 0-60 in 12-13 sec. For those who think the US Prius is too slow at 10.5 sec . . .

[peppy]

I know you don't want to here of another TDI love story......

I have an 01 (285,000 miles and 50 mpg) and a 2011 (4000 miles and 40mpg).

I here Ford has a bunch of cars that get 40mpg

[Brando]

Originally Posted by AirKuhl

If all you care about is saving money over the term of ownership, buy a used, small displacement motorcycle and you're done. Nothing can touch it. [...]

WORD!

My 1986 Yamaha Virago 750: Drove it from SloCal to Tucson AZ... Averaged 68mpg fully-loaded, with windshield, crusing at 70-80 mph. I refilled every 185-190 miles.

You CAN'T beat that. When I was on half the income I had now I rode it everywhere. $8.50-$9.00 to fill it up and I could ride for almost 2 weeks before needing to fill up again.

[jyl]

The funny thing is, you could do that drive in a couple different cars today, get 60 mpg all the way, and no bugs in your teeth, a/c, tunes, wear flip-flops, airbags and ABS. Cars have come a long way. In 10 years, I think we'll laugh at how crummy the mpg of the Prius and TDIs were. You know if the US car fleet had the average mpg of the European car fleet, we wouldn't have to mobilize the army every time some Arab country has a snit, and Chavez would be just another hard-luck banana dictator.

[A930Rocket]

So why is it that the US market has so few small cars with diesel engines? Seems like a no brainer.

[Danny_Ocean]

Originally Posted by A930Rocket

So why is it that the US market has so few small cars with diesel engines? Seems like a no brainer.

Because big fat folks want big fat cars. They won't sell (enough)...

[AirKuhl]

Originally Posted by A930Rocket

So why is it that the US market has so few small cars with diesel engines? Seems like a no brainer.

Hysterical environmentalists that turn pale at the thought of all that evil soot clogging their delicate lungs.

Doesn't matter that it isn't true. One guy was stuck behind an old diesel Benz one day, so there.

[Brando]

Originally Posted by jyl

The funny thing is, you could do that drive in a couple different cars today, get 60 mpg all the way, and no bugs in your teeth, a/c, tunes, wear flip-flops, airbags and ABS. Cars have come a long way. In 10 years, I think we'll laugh at how crummy the mpg of the Prius and TDIs were. You know if the US car fleet had the average mpg of the European car fleet, we wouldn't have to mobilize the army every time some Arab country has a snit, and Chavez would be just another hard-luck banana dictator.

Can you please show me a few examples of these vehicles that cost less than $2500 initially and less than $300 annually in maintenance?

If they are so readily available and can so easily be acquired here, please give me examples (local classifieds help) and I may look at buying one.

[Brando]

So I looked for myself, and amongst the results of 'cars' that could get 60+mpg, I found the Honda Insight ($19,000) and a plethora of gas or diesel Fords and VWs that are not allowed in the U.S.

I don't see how that kind of price tag can compete the with price tag of even a new motorcycle that can get the same gas mileage or better and has less maintenance cost. And yes, the maintenance costs on those hybrids becomes astronomical when you have to replace a ton of batteries, flush two coolant systems, do two oil changes, etc etc etc.

IMHO the "benefit" of having the hybrid costs so much more than the other options. It's almost the same or a net-loss.

[RWebb]

not real clear on how they work, eh?