Uncomfortably long take-off roll. Would you consider this a close call?

[LeeH]

When we were taking off from the sidewalk used as a runway in Placencia, Belize, I remember thinking, "We should really be up in the air by now." We rolled and rolled and rolled. I've flown a lot and I have to say that this take off had the highest pucker factor I've ever experienced on a plane. Best I can tell, we pretty much rolled right to the end of the runway before getting air born. The plane (Cessna Caravan) was completely full of people, luggage, and cargo.

When I was editing the video I posted in this thread, I took a closer look. I pulled out the video from where we landed and the video where we took off and posted them below. Take a look at the house with the blue/green roof off to the right when we land. Then compare that to the take off video. What do you think?

[drcoastline]

Yeah, I would say that was pretty close. It almost looks like the only reason the plane was in the air is because the runway disappeared from under it.

[slodave]

My guess. Weight was a big factor in this. Maybe, since this is Belize, the plane was a bit over gross. The Cessna needed all the runway to get to rotate speed and take off speed. It looks like the flaps are down a notch too - to provide a bit more lift.

[HardDrive]

He used every inch of the runway, no doubt.

[DonDavis]

Lee, I know you. I can hear your concern in your post. That was a tense. Wow!
I don't think the casual traveler would've realized the situation.
Was there any discussion during or after among the passengers and/or crew?

[ckissick]

Reminds of the time I flew out of Sydney, en route to LA. We were in a 747 with not one empty seat. I think I was the only passeneger who was not a John Deere dealer or his wife.

Imagine this: About 200 tractor dealers from Kansas, Nebraska, etc. Each one the size of an offensive lineman. And their wives were even bigger. Apparently, while every Billy Bob and Jerry Jeff was boozing it up at the convention center, every Betty Lou and Norma Jean was hitting the malls of Sydney, and hitting them hard, denuding Australia of every last kangaroo-based knick-knack and any other piece of crap they could buy. I still don't know how that 747 ever got off the ground. I think we dragged a length of chain link all the way to LAX.

[rsNINESOOPER]

Not that it should make you feel better but that seems like standard operation for the pilots of the passenger "bush" planes flown all over South American countries. I have been on a number of flight like that (costa rica, Nicaragua, etc.) where even a jackass like myself who who raise his arms and let out a yell like a roller coaster ride during airplane rides like that still wants to cry like a little kid when a treetop slaps a wing strut on the way out after using up every inch of the potholed hillbilly drag strips they use to take off and land. I just give the pilots the benefit of the doubt that they are good at flying to the edge of the aircrafts abilities and not their own. Being drunk helps- ask for a flask for christmas and travel with it next time.

[stuartj]

Originally Posted by ckissick

Reminds of the time I flew out of Sydney, en route to LA. We were in a 747 with not one empty seat. I think I was the only passeneger who was not a John Deere dealer or his wife.

Imagine this: About 200 tractor dealers from Kansas, Nebraska, etc. Each one the size of an offensive lineman. And their wives were even bigger. Apparently, while every Billy Bob and Jerry Jeff was boozing it up at the convention center, every Betty Lou and Norma Jean was hitting the malls of Sydney, and hitting them hard, denuding Australia of every last kangaroo-based knick-knack and any other piece of crap they could buy. I still don't know how that 747 ever got off the ground. I think we dragged a length of chain link all the way to LAX.

Melbourne or Sydney to LAX, 16.5 hours, is the longest air route in the world. Although I believe there is now a slightly longer one from the west coast of the US to somewhere in China. Every coffee cup on board the 747-400 is full of kero, and they come in on fumes at the other end. Yes it feels like the big bastard will never haul itself into the sky.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Yea, that's a "pucker factor" TO roll...

[9dreizig]

I would sat that is SOP for that area and that runway. That plane was full with fuel, passengers, and cargo.

[dennis in se pa]

I bet the pilot does it just to wind people up.

The landing on Young Island in the Caribbean is something special to watch.

[cairns]

Melbourne or Sydney to LAX, 16.5 hours, is the longest air route in the world. Although I believe there is now a slightly longer one from the west coast of the US to somewhere in China. Every coffee cup on board the 747-400 is full of kero, and they come in on fumes at the other end. Yes it feels like the big bastard will never haul itself into the sky.

Actually it's the Melbourne direct to SFO/LAX route (or the reverse) that clocks in at 16.5. United doesn't offer it anymore but the roll outs were incredibly long....and flying over Canberra knowing you still had another hour plus to go......

Sydney LAX is usually about 14.5 still pretty darn long. And I think Singapore runs a NJ to Singapore route at some 19 plus hours which is now the longest....

[recycled sixtie]

for this kind of aircraft. Hot temperature, full load = long take off roll. A twin Otter (twin engine turboprop) would be more appropriate for this kind of operation but is way more expensive to buy and run(more fuel etc, maintenance). Fortunately engine failures are a fairly rare occurrence but they can happen. You just hope with a single engine a/c that u have warning of an impending engine failure in the early part of the takeoff roll! If the pilot complied with the operating manual, maybe half the passengers would be left behind!

[KevinTodd]

...and if your landing on that "runway" was anything like mine a couple years back then it was performed by a pilot that looked 16. Pucker indeed.

Hey, at least his uniform shirt was nicely starched. Oh--and as I am here typing this response obviously the landing was successful.

[GH85Carrera]

My dad tells the story of sitting in the Philippines for several days waiting for the weather to cool off. He was the pilot of a C-124 that was full of mattresses and it was so hot and humid the cargo load and runway length would not allow for takeoff.

When the numbers finally got to marginal they left very early in the morning. He said they still mowed down about 1/2 a mile of the tops of a sugar cane field.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

I question the takeoff technique a little - it seems like the plane just didn't want to accelerate past a certain point and yet there seemed to be very little or no effort on the part of the PF to get weight off the wheels and take advantage of ground effect to the extent possible. It did kind of happen at the end but still... It looks like the situation might've benefitted a bit from a touch more backpressure (obviously the last thing you want to do is jerk the thing into the air and have it pancake back down)

I've done a lot of flying into Big Bear & Mammoth - both are pretty high altitude. There are always people in the warmer months that try it and it never ends well. A couple of guys each year end up dunking perfectly good airplanes into the drink west of Big Bear. Fortunately at KMMH the terrain falls away (hopefully faster than the aircraft sinks!) to the east, which is typically the way people depart.

[asphaltgambler]

IMO.....................for a piston engine aircraft.........that thing took way too long to get any ground speed..........glad I was not a passenger

[Tishabet]

Originally Posted by cairns

Sydney LAX is usually about 14.5 still pretty darn long. And I think Singapore runs a NJ to Singapore route at some 19 plus hours which is now the longest....

I flew that route in November, JFK direct to SIN (9530 miles). Definitely a long flight. The month before that I did LAX to BKK which is also quite a haul at 8250 miles. It has been a good year for my frequent flyer account.

Fyi, LAX to MEL is "only" about 7800 miles.

[Tim Hancock]

I used to fly a 108hp Grumman Yankee off of a 2000' grass strip. With two people and full fuel on board, I would let her roll with neutral controls and no flaps nearly the entire length of the runway to gather speed before dropping the flaps a bit and pulling back on the yoke to lift off into ground effect. Attempting to rotate prior to achieving sufficient speed, would result in too much drag and only prolong the takeoff roll in that ground loving Grumman.

This pilot was likely doing something similar.... avoiding creating speed killling drag by leaving the nose down until reaching max speed at the end of the runway.

I am not saying that situation is ideal, but it obviously works in some situations. I would rather be in the air slowly building speed in ground effect just over the water at the end of the runway than to drive/crash into the water due to heaving the nose up too prior to reaching flying speed.

[widgeon13]

Originally Posted by asphaltgambler

IMO.....................for a piston engine aircraft.........that thing took way too long to get any ground speed..........glad I was not a passenger

It's powered by a Pratt & Whitney PT6A turboprop.