I have the worst plumbing clog right now

[Schumi]

I'm stumped. Never clogged a sink this bad. I'll run everyone down of my last 2 hours of frustration:

I'm cleaning a giant pot where I burnt some chili on the bottom. I scrape off the burnt stuff- some flakes, a few beans left, but nothing really all that big. I pour it in the sink with running water and have my garbage disposal running. It takes it all down just fine. Then I'm rinsing out the water starts backing up. Alright, no big deal, I'll just check the garbage disposal... I ran that again... sucks the water down, no big deal.

But it continues to fill up. Into the adjoining sink (they are linked, below the disposal but above the trap.

So it's pretty clogged, water not moving. I fill the sinks up, block 1 off, and use a (new!) plunger to plunge the other sink. I'm moving a lot of water in the pipes for sure, I can feel it in the floor below me, so I know the clog is not in the trap below the sink. But it doesn't unclog.

I then start getting lots of rust, and bits of other things I have never put down the sink before (plastic, hair!) coming up in the sink. Not Chili.


I fill the sink all the way up and run the garbage disposal- it pumps the water out of the sink. So hey! it must be clearing the clog. But then I fill the sink back up with water and it doesn't go down. So somehow the disposal is pumping water down but it won't go down on it's own and plunging won't force it down.


That is when I realize that it seems like it's backing up into my bathroom sink. There was rust bits in the bathroom sink (but no water- it had come up then went down). Also, when I plunge hard enough in the kitchen, the toilet gurgles.

So the connection between the bathroom sink, the kitchen sink, and the toilet is above the clog. Which means the clog is waaay down there somewhere, in my basement (where I do not have access- it's a condo). I fear that adding more water to the situation is slowly leveling the system all the way up- filling the pipes up to some water line- but this cannot be true as then my sink water line level should be the same water line lever as my bathroom sink- but it is not, as the bathroom sink, while connected, is not backed all the way up.




I am confused. I had several pictures of the plumbing system in my head, but now I am assuming there is something I am missing going on, and there must be some rube-goldberg piping in the walls that I cannot understand.

My roommate and I have taken turns blocking the bathroom sink and the shower drain while flushing the toilet and plunging all at the same time- you can feel pressure from the plunger at all those points and when blocking everything at one and plunging, the toilet sloshes and bubbles.


So my entire house drain must somehow be backed up. Which amazes me as it should be a 3" drain, correct? And I did not put anything down the sink larger than a good 'deuce down the toilet would have been.


I refuse to call a plumber. I hate that idea.

Does Drain-O work? Never used it.

[Schumi]

Between my roomate and I we have five engineering degrees.

Two of his are in fluid dynamics.


And yet we can't figure out how this system is linked and not draining. We ran water in the bathroom for 10 minutes and it did not back up. We flushed the toilet many times and it did not back up. Yet plunging on the sink makes them back up, which, logic would presume, means that they are above the clog.

[slodave]

Any trees around?

Not that expect that this will help you, but I had a bathroom sink clog recently. I figured it was in the elbow and really didn't want to take it apart. I used some old Draino, but it didn't work. I gave up for a few weeks, then bought a new bottle - Draino max gel, pour some in, let it slowly drain, pour some more.... After letting it sit for a while, I let the kitchen sink water get as hot as it could, filled a gallon water bottle and poured it down the bathroom drain. At first nothing changed, so before giving up I poured a few more gallons of hot water down. It worked. Each gallon went down faster and faster.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by Schumi

Between my roomate and I we have five engineering degrees.

Two of his are in fluid dynamics.


And yet we can't figure out how this system is linked and not draining. We ran water in the bathroom for 10 minutes and it did not back up. We flushed the toilet many times and it did not back up. Yet plunging on the sink makes them back up, which, logic would presume, means that they are above the clog.

You have to read Milt's trades thread.

[look 171]

It sound like a branch is clogged. maybe its the main line depending where thing are located. This is not something you did . Its been brewing for some time. Run a snake it will take care of it. Sound llike a small issue, really. Call your management of landlord. You can at least take a dump or a shower.

[john70t]

All the sinks/toilets/showers go the the sewer main which travels out to the street line.
-Usually, anything before the street is the responsibility of the owner/renter.
-If the house is at the bottom of a hill, sometimes the city main in the street can back up all the way into the nearest lowest house.

The high-side/top of this main pipe inside the house goes up through the roof, in order to allow air to enter the system and prevent a vaccum while large a amount of water is draining. This also helps sewage vapors to escape and not enter the living space inside.
These are the pipe ends you see sticking out of the shingles.

When the main is clogged below the basement, water from the 2nd floor will travel downwards, be stopped by the obstuction, and backfeed up through 1st floor showers and toliets.

The sewer main is a pretty large diameter pipe.
The usual causes of blockage are tree roots growing into it, collapsing from soil pressure and/or weak pipe, and sometimes layers of rusted cast iron can peel back and block it.

[Schumi]

Yep, that is pretty much an echo of my plumbing system knowledge (I worked construction as a teenager, re: milt's trades thread)

I am on the 2nd floor. There is a garage under me.

I still havent figured out how the clog is seemingly below my floor level, but my sink is backed up yet at a different level than my bathroom- you would think water would find it's level... but in this case not so.


It doesn't help that under my sink, instead of the typical trap-u then down, it goes thru two 90* elbows, then a U-trap, then it goes horizontal for 5 feet into the wet wall. Horizontal, not angled at all.

[Schumi]

Just did some more detective work.

The pipes from my kitchen sink, shower, and bath all run horizontal into the wetwall, which is above the garage below us. I went down the that garage and I now see that all those pipes from my wetwall come out into the ceiling of the garage and then run horizontal along the wall for about 15 feet until they enter the utility room on the first floor.

It's just bad plumbing design- very long, small diameter (1.5" or so) drains running horizontal with no slope.

There is probably years of crap sitting in there and all my plunging is doing is compounding it.

[john70t]

I think 1/4"in drop per foot is the very minimum for plain water.
Don't know about waste water.

If it's exposed in the garage, it should be an easy fix for the landlord, ASAP.

[Rick V]

Mike you have to stop flushing your tampons in rapid succession. In all seriousness if you try a Drain-O type of thing do NOT use anything but the liquid or jell kind, that crystal stuff turns to cement if it doesn't break the clog free.

[KFC911]

Hey Mike, forget Drano or any of that stuff. What you need is the longest "plumber's snake" you can find (I have one that is 25'), and see what you can do with that. Even then, there's a good chance that the clog could be "way down the line", so it could be an issue with the whole building (like outside), after years of buildup (could be the condo, or the city's problem), but you won't know until it's found. Sux...btdt with a condo before...

[on2wheels52]

A couple of years ago I had a kitchen drain back up. I had access to the lines in the basement, there was even something of a clean-out plug where the pipe came into the basement.
I ran the whole length of my hand powered snake through it. No help.
I took home a big Rigid electric powered snake that was in hock and ran it through. Still no joy.
A handy brother-in-law happened to visit that weekend and we cut the pipe out and took it outside. It was solid with black slimey crud, it would just close up again after the snake went through.
He thought it was due to not having enough fall for the run, house was 10 years old so it took a while to show up. We ran a garden hose through the pipe to clean it and glued it back up, I don't remember what he set for the fall but it was more than originally used.
Jim

[dennis in se pa]

Captain Clog is your friend. You don't need this frustration.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

I guarantee your LL will blame you and try to stick you with any bills for repairs ("well it worked fine before you moved in...")

BTDT.

As such, try to snake it as has been mentioned. If it doesn't work try talking to a neighbor downstream to see if they're also having issues - if so it'll help show that it's a building issue, not just a single tenant issue.

Best case it's a shared/building problem and someone else calls it in (and fights the fight about it).

One reason I hate condos and apartments - it only takes one idiot in the building to start flushing god-knows-what and now you've got an entire building of angry residents...

People can and will flush amazingly stupid things - especially in institutional type facilities. You wouldn't believe it. One project I worked on recently involved installing a half-million-dollar macerator/extractor just to get foreign objects out of the waste stream... They make a hell of a mess at the treatment plants too (everyone's costs for sewage treatment & disposal than go up...)

I hope this is a root problem or similar building issue or I have a feeling you're going to get burned on this one...

[creaturecat]

6 ft max horizontal w/o a vent, i believe this is the code, here, w/1.5 inch piping.
You can put in cheater vents, if necessary.
This won't solve the current problem, however venting is critical for proper function.

[vash]

i bet the main line is clogged. when you run the disposal and turbo-charge the water down the drain..you are pushing it UP the vent. then it runs back down and comes up the various sink drains.

[vash]

clean plunger? at this point it doesnt even matter. you will need to sanitize everything like it is a crime scene anyways.

[Zeke]

There has to be a clean out somewhere. The rust and hair tells me you have an old blockage. Snakes are really the only sure way to clear the blockage and open things up so it doesn't happen again in a month.

[Jared at Pelican Parts]

Welcome to Hermosa Beach. (we don't need no stinking grades..)

You need to snake the horizontal pipes. This is pretty common in apartment complexes here. Also clean your U-traps and make sure the vents are functional. Don't overthink the problem.

I'd contact the LL first, politely tell him of the problem and request that the pipes be cleaned out. I'm pretty sure this is the responsibility of the owner.

Maybe you can work out a deal with your LL? I maintain the place, do plumbing, electrical, basic construction and usually get half my rent deducted (which is a lot in El Segundo).

[Chocaholic]

When I read the title of this thread, I thought it was a medical issue.