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Originally Posted by Joe Bob View Post
Hmmm, the video says they are out of the Bay Area but who-is out of Rhode Island....
I think its the lead proto engineer for Lit. A lit'tle (pun) over zealous about safety in that clip but whatever, they have a long way to go. They did request for some perks from the DoE but not sure if they received any. I like the concept and looks promising. Assuming it becomes a reality, I could see them producing it in India or at least a good percentage of it. I can't see it done in the US and there's no way it would become a volume seller even in the $15k bracket.

I realize Tesla is seeking a somewhat different market along with the deep pockets plus taxpayers loans, its a huge risk. I think it will bleed for a much longer time but hope they can survive and pay it back. Anyone know of the DOE loan parameters or are there guarantee backers?
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Old 06-24-2012, 02:25 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #61 (permalink)
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OK say we just try to stay with petrol fueled transport. Then when it does start to run out and the price does go thru $10. a gallon. And other countries have developed solar electric cars. imagine how much we will be paying for those cars.
Most solar pannels are now being made in Germany and China now cause we decided it wasn't economical to build hear.
Its not very forward thinking to just sit it out with existing technology till it runs out.
Then start to scramble.

Sorry I've got to just drop in for a moment, as I'm in cambria Ca on vacation, with no internet where I am staying. Just like we will be W/O trying to lead the development of new energy sources. Left out of the conversation.

Cheers Richard
Old 06-24-2012, 05:01 PM
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Ditch-digging is not listed in the brochure as a competitive advantage in today's/tomorrow's global economy.

Financial and Service economies don't spur entrepreneurialism and innovation. Manufacturing is the only economic model that spurs growth at all income levels.

Oil is a limited resource.

All oil is foreign all, traded on 2 markets. Speculators only have to carry paper, not take possession.

The cost to keep the Middle East and therefore Oil Futures stable makes the investment in Tesla seem like spare change.
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Old 06-24-2012, 05:58 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #63 (permalink)
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2012 Tesla Model S First Drive - Motor Trend

"So is it the best car in the world? This fourth production example built may not be, but I'd rank it among the top few percentile and at the rate these automotive greenhorns are improving things, it might well be the best car in the solar system by version 2.0. I'd advocate for a bit more rear seat space, comfort, and lateral support, and of course more range for less money would be nice. But the dynamic performance, equipment level, and style nearly justify the price -- even if you don't care about the electric drivetrain. I don't. And I want one."
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Old 06-24-2012, 06:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaisen View Post
..
Why do we "bother" with gasoline motors when diesel provides better energy density?
Why aren't you mad at your government for allowing that? Why aren't you mad that they incentivize companies to make gasoline powered cars more efficent?
Are you going to call people who like gasoline powered cars "stupid"?

It's an unwinnable arguement. And you're not in the position to choose for others.
Clearly you don't understand...or don't want to understand. The power difference between gas and Diesel is small. This means, when looking at the whole feature set, that other differences can --and obviously DO-- bridge that power gap. ...namely sound/vibration and smell levels are enough more desirable in gasoline engines FTW.

"And you're not in the position to choose for others." WTF? Who said that I was even trying making decisions for others? 30min's ago I was at the Tesla dealership. They have a really sweet deal. 57,500 --which would be 63,250 after tax. But, the tax is waived AND they give a 7,500 fed tax credit. (good until 2015 he said) ...so for 50k, that's pretty impressive. Plus, no road tax!

Apparently there are ~10k people in line to buy, putting delivery out about a year (w/ a 5k deposit today) ... $50k - that's a lot of unique attention getting car for only 50k. I -get- that appeal. But my point is that this (massively subsidized) model is not the lead-in to a new era of electric cars for the mainstream.

Think about this, VC guys ...venture capitalists, have a saying: Settlers thrive... after Pioneers get slaughtered.

That is, Tevakes point is fine, but timing is everything. Battery cars are a long ways from being competitive in the world economies. So just how long should we be dumping money into this appliance vehicle "technology" ...while we wait for some big battery tech break-thru? ...and really, will we have some big advantage from hemorrhaging so much money on existing appliance technology when this "new energy tech" comes along? I mean, someone invents a Mr Fusion and all that regenerative braking and battery-pack cooling tech really is mute.
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Old 06-24-2012, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa View Post
Ditch-digging is not listed in the brochure as a competitive advantage in today's/tomorrow's global economy.

Financial and Service economies don't spur entrepreneurialism and innovation. Manufacturing is the only economic model that spurs growth at all income levels.

Oil is a limited resource.

All oil is foreign all, traded on 2 markets. Speculators only have to carry paper, not take possession.

The cost to keep the Middle East and therefore Oil Futures stable makes the investment in Tesla seem like spare change.
you need to do more research. YMMV.
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Last edited by nynor; 06-24-2012 at 06:27 PM.. Reason: typo.
Old 06-24-2012, 06:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa View Post
...
Oil is a limited resource.
..
Hello, and welcome to 1975.

No, you're right, it's not like oil grows on trees. .. Oh wait, it does.

Hydrocarbons are freaking everywhere.

I think you simply bought in to the whole "peak oil" scare. --has there ever been a better way to get people to pay more for a product than claiming Hurry hurry, we are almost sold out.
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Old 06-24-2012, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nynor View Post
you need to do more research. YMMV.
oil futures are oil futures, whether the oil is pumped out of Texas or Saudi Arabia.
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Old 06-24-2012, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by island911 View Post
Hello, and welcome to 1975.

No, you're right, it's not like oil grows on trees. .. Oh wait, it does.

Hydrocarbons are freaking everywhere.

I think you simply bought in to the whole "peak oil" scare. --has there ever been a better way to get people to pay more for a product than claiming Hurry hurry, we are almost sold out.
Apple (Up "squirrel")

Seriously Glenn, you are way outclassed in this debate. give it up already. oil is a limited resource. and my additional points stand.
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Old 06-24-2012, 06:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa View Post
oil futures are oil futures, whether the oil is pumped out of Texas or Saudi Arabia.
that isn't what you wrote. nice try, however.

anyhow, there is some interesting research that suggest oil came/comes from methane. guess what collects on the bottom of the ocean as a result of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere.....
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Old 06-24-2012, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by nynor View Post
that isn't what you wrote. nice try, however.

anyhow, there is some interesting research that suggest oil came/comes from methane. guess what collects on the bottom of the ocean as a result of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere.....
it's exactly what I wrote, that you didn't understand it is not my problem.
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Old 06-24-2012, 06:44 PM
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outclassed

well, I guess that class wins the point.

you argue like a child. The sun is a limited resource. But that really doesn't tell us much, now does it? I mean really, do you think that such a simplistic statement as "well oil is a limited resource" is helpful? Esp when you have NO clue to that extent of limit...


Tee Shirt!

Little Boy!

...what a doofus. ...but with t-shirt strut'n class.
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Old 06-24-2012, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nynor View Post
that isn't what you wrote. nice try, however.

anyhow, there is some interesting research that suggest oil came/comes from methane. guess what collects on the bottom of the ocean as a result of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere.....
...and carbonic acid in the ocean. ...Lots of decaying carbon based life in the oceans.
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Old 06-24-2012, 06:57 PM
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um.... okay.....

again, just for fun:

"All oil is foreign all, traded on 2 markets."

all oil is foriegn all.... i was giving you the benefit of the doubt. but your follow up post confirmed my initial estimation of your grammar, among other things. nice try.
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Old 06-24-2012, 06:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by island911 View Post
...and carbonic acid in the ocean. ...Lots of decaying carbon based life in the oceans.
exactly.

they have found that wells in the gulf coast, once thought to be done and over and dry, are now filled with more crude. interesting, no.
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Old 06-24-2012, 06:58 PM
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of course the guys selling the oil had people believing that oil was all dead dinosaurs. (certainly there couldn't have been THAT many dino's ...running out of dead dino's... quick, buy your dead dinosaur futures today.)
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Old 06-24-2012, 07:02 PM
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LOL! Seems I hit a nerve. Does my success bother you?

Ditch-digging is not listed in the brochure as a competitive advantage in today's/tomorrow's global economy.

Financial and Service economies don't spur entrepreneurialism and innovation. Manufacturing is the only economic model that spurs growth at all income levels.

Oil is a limited resource.

All oil is foreign all, traded on 2 markets. Speculators only have to carry paper, not take possession.

The cost to keep the Middle East and therefore Oil Futures stable makes the investment in Tesla seem like spare change.
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Old 06-24-2012, 07:02 PM
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actually, I'm quiet certain that you had a nerve (or two) HIT. ...being that you can't refute, so you start in with the childish tactics.
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Everyone you meet knows something you don't. - - - and a whole bunch of crap that is wrong.
Disclaimer: the above was 2¢ worth.
More information is available as my professional opinion, which is provided for an exorbitant fee.
Old 06-24-2012, 07:09 PM
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all oil is foreign all,..... ?!!? yep, that is difficult to parse.
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Old 06-24-2012, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by island911 View Post
of course the guys selling the oil had people believing that oil was all dead dinosaurs. (certainly there couldn't have been THAT many dino's ...running out of dead dino's... quick, buy your dead dinosaur futures today.)
estimates based on the 'dinosaur theory' (yeah, i named it that) would have oil being depleted a LONG LONG LONG time ago.
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Old 06-24-2012, 07:11 PM
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