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Quote:
Originally Posted by island911 View Post
actually, I'm quiet certain that you had a nerve (or two) HIT. ...being that you can't refute, so you start in with the childish tactics.
Glenn, you've attacked everyone on this thread to no avail. It's a pattern, see the tablet thread. Didn't work there, not so much here as well. all I'm sayin.
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Old 06-24-2012, 07:13 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #81 (permalink)
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The PARF is strong in this thread.

I am really disappointed that NOBODY posted a picture or video of the S. WTF?

I found the design more appealing a couple (or 3?) years ago when they announced this car. Did it get watered down or do others have good looking sedans out now too? (looks a lot like a Jag and worse than a Maserati IMHO).

One thing nobody mentioned is getting the emissions away from the cities. In LA it would be huge to have even 20% of the commuters run zero emissions vehicles. Many people drive a car that is practically 100% a commuter for <100 miles round trip every day. An EV fits that role well. For road trips on the weekends, there usually still is a petroleum minivan to take ...

That's what I am seeing for the mid term future - we will have these for commuters / second cars. I'd buy one if it wasn't an arm and a leg ...

edit: look at the performance numbers (0-60) - faster than my 993.

G



Tesla Model S arrives with big hopes riding on it | TG Daily
Quote:
The car comes with three options of battery capacity which translate into its performance figures. The 40 kilowatt-hour (kWh) battery will get you 160 miles of range, zero to 60 in 6.5 seconds and a top speed of 110 mph. With the 60 kWh and 85 kWh options you get 230/300 mile ranges, zero to 60 in 5.9/5.6 seconds and a top speed of 120/125 mph, respectively. There's also an 85 kWh "performance" level option, with specs of a 300 mile range, zero to 60 mph of 4.4 seconds and a top speed of 130 mph.
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Old 06-24-2012, 11:04 PM
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$50k out the door seems cheap to me. And think it looks good. ...appropriate styling. ...the Fisker, not so much (over done).

As far as moving the pollution out of the city... Have you considered that people are more and more avoiding those cities? (new construction) I see this model of everyone commuting to big cities for commerce as a quickly fading one. I mean, do you drive to El Segundo for Porsche parts? Read: computers/communications are allowing much work/commerce to be done where ever you are. --why electrically move people/bodies around when we can transport just their intentions? And, I will also not, that new mfg keeps getting push out of cities as hipsters drive up urban property costs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa View Post
Glenn, you've attacked everyone on this thread to no avail. It's a pattern, see the tablet thread. Didn't work there, not so much here as well. all I'm sayin.
All you do is yammer about anything other than the topic at hand. Make it personal ... More Social experimenting, I suppose. :-/
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Old 06-25-2012, 07:28 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #83 (permalink)
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Tesla is barely a blip on the screen for any or all sales but kudo's to them offering a $58,570 base list car at this level. That rear motor makes 362 hp at 6-9000 rpm and 325 lb-ft at 0-5000 rpm in the base model. Short-haul drivers can get a 40 kWh pack good for about 140 miles of EPA 5-cycle range. Forget the tax credits for a moment and just comparing some big makers offerings:

By comparison a 2012 Nissan LEAF 24 kWh battery propels the 1300-pound lighter car 73 miles. Price before tax credits is $36,000.

A Ford Focus BEV is only $40,000!!!! Ooooh.
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Old 06-25-2012, 08:06 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #84 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by island911 View Post
As far as moving the pollution out of the city... Have you considered that people are more and more avoiding those cities? (new construction) I see this model of everyone commuting to big cities for commerce as a quickly fading one. I mean, do you drive to El Segundo for Porsche parts? Read: computers/communications are allowing much work/commerce to be done where ever you are. --why electrically move people/bodies around when we can transport just their intentions? And, I will also not, that new mfg keeps getting push out of cities as hipsters drive up urban property costs.
It is apparent that you haven't been to the LA metro area. The commute is alive and well here and will be for decades. This is the perfect place for EV commuters.

G
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Old 06-25-2012, 08:38 AM
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up to 85 KWh battery pack for a Tesla... Has anyone considered the the issue of how many ipads have to die to make those battery packs? ...I'll let someone else do the math on that, but will note this..."BusinessWeek reported that iPad sales, which also run on lithium-ion batteries, have led to tightening lithium supplies. The price of lithium has already tripled since 2000 and it’s projected to double again by 2020. Considering the amount of lithium that Tesla’s huge batteries, if demand really explodes for S-class it’s hard to imagine it wouldn’t further impact the lithium market." Link

So, vastly more expensive portable electronic devices, sky-rocketing lithium prices and demand, and yet where's Shawn to yell "Peak Lithium!. . Lithium is a limited resource"...?
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Last edited by island911; 06-25-2012 at 08:44 AM..
Old 06-25-2012, 08:41 AM
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and lithium is oh-so-toxic. disposing of all those battery packs and such is going to fun.
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Old 06-25-2012, 08:59 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #87 (permalink)
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Now that Kurt Cobain is dead, where will we get more Lithium?
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Old 06-25-2012, 09:05 AM
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How to Recycle Batteries - Battery University

Interesting article on battery recycling.
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Old 06-25-2012, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Bob View Post
How to Recycle Batteries - Battery University

Interesting article on battery recycling.
Wow, I guess so...
Quote:
Primary lithium batteries contain metallic lithium that reacts violently when in contact with moisture and the batteries must be disposed of appropriately. If thrown in the landfill in a charged state, heavy equipment operating on top could crush the cases and the exposed lithium would cause a fire. Landfill fires are difficult to extinguish and can burn for years underground. Before recycling, apply a full discharge to consume the lithium content
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Old 06-25-2012, 09:19 AM
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Primary Lithium batteries are very different than Lithium Ion, according to the article

More evidence of your selective cognitive function
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Old 06-25-2012, 09:21 AM
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Ummmm, Lithium batteries have always had an issue with fire, hence the Dell recall on laptops awhile back. Nothing new there.

ALL batteries should be recycled or disposed of correctly.
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Old 06-25-2012, 09:21 AM
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I'm all for pushing the boundaries of technology. But let me get this straight. This EV is using public money (aka my money) to design/make a car. Then, I have to fork over my money to buy the car.

So, I'm paying twice for the car?

In jest...
Old 06-25-2012, 09:38 AM
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I'm all for pushing the boundaries of technology. But let me get this straight. This EV is using public money (aka my money) to design/make a car. Then, I have to fork over my money to buy the car.

So, I'm paying twice for the car?

In jest...
No, they borrowed "your" money
Half a billion.....which wouldn't even build one third of the assembly plant, let alone develop the car or the technologies
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Old 06-25-2012, 09:44 AM
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Still don't know where the 'public money' came from......can you provide a link?
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Old 06-25-2012, 09:52 AM
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"joe" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Motors#History_and_financing

also, If Tesla sells 100k cars between now and 2015 that's another 750Million in Fed Tax subsidies. (not counting the State sales taxes waived, or the zero gas tax collected)

So the point still stands - The Tesla is a heavily subsidized car.

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Originally Posted by kaisen View Post
Primary Lithium batteries are very different than Lithium Ion, according to the article

More evidence of your selective cognitive function
Like I said earlier, I have to give you some nit to pick. ...just to see if you're paying attention.

IOW, the larger points still stand.

- The Tesla is a heavily subsidized car.

- The Tesla uses very expensive (limited resource) batteries.

- The energy density of battery tech is no where near that of hydrocarbons.
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Old 06-25-2012, 10:01 AM
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Oh, and from page one...

Color me impressed when an electric car company produces a competitive sol'n w/o massive tax dollar infusions.

Until then, It's a niche market and a niche product. ...a heavy, expensive rolling energy storage system which is slow to refill. :-/
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Old 06-25-2012, 10:13 AM
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Oh, and from page one...

Color me impressed when an electric car company produces a competitive sol'n w/o massive tax dollar infusions.

Until then, It's a niche market and a niche product. ...a heavy, expensive rolling energy storage system which is slow to refill. :-/
So half a billion is "MASSIVE" in your view of the auto industry?

And you have to stand there and wait for your gasoline car to fill up
Do you have to wait for that sloooooow overnight recharge of the EV? Nope.
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Old 06-25-2012, 10:15 AM
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Ah there it is.....buried in the fine print of a Wiki article.


In June 2009 Tesla was approved to receive US$465 million in interest-bearing loans from the United States Department of Energy. The funding, part of an US$8 billion program for advanced vehicle technologies (Advanced Technology Vehicles Manufacturing Loan Program), supports engineering and production of the Model S sedan, as well as the development of powertrain technology that Tesla plans to sell to other automakers.[49] The low-interest loans are not related to the "bailout" funds that GM and Chrysler have received, nor are they related to the 2009 economic stimulus package. The Department of Energy loan program was created in 2007 during the George Bush administration in order to get more fuel-efficient vehicle options to U.S. consumers and to decrease the country's dependence on foreign oil.[50]
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Old 06-25-2012, 10:25 AM
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So half a billion is "MASSIVE" in your view of the auto industry?

And you have to stand there and wait for your gasoline car to fill up
Do you have to wait for that sloooooow overnight recharge of the EV? Nope.
" the auto industry"

Do you think that 10 cars delivered is "MASSIVE" in the auto industry? Wait wait. . . they've been doing this for years, re-working the Lotus Elise as their Roadster. What was the count on those re-works? ...2500? ..spread over FOUR years ...is that "MASSIVE" in the auto industry?

Maybe it it's "MASSIVE" in the auto Re-work industry. :-/

Just don't go Pretending that Tesla is on par with even Hyundai. They are not. They have produce TEN cars that they can call their own. . .TEN! So, yeah, half a billion is "MASSIVE" for a producer of TEN cars or even Ten Thousand (which they have fully refundable orders.)

Now how did you say it... More evidence of your selective cognitive function

Your serve.
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Disclaimer: the above was 2¢ worth.
More information is available as my professional opinion, which is provided for an exorbitant fee.

Last edited by island911; 06-25-2012 at 10:48 AM..
Old 06-25-2012, 10:45 AM
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