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Registered
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Cambridge, MA
Posts: 44,438
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Glenn, you've attacked everyone on this thread to no avail. It's a pattern, see the tablet thread. Didn't work there, not so much here as well. all I'm sayin.
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Tru6 Restoration & Design |
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Now in 993 land ...
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The PARF is strong in this thread.
I am really disappointed that NOBODY posted a picture or video of the S. WTF? I found the design more appealing a couple (or 3?) years ago when they announced this car. Did it get watered down or do others have good looking sedans out now too? (looks a lot like a Jag and worse than a Maserati IMHO). One thing nobody mentioned is getting the emissions away from the cities. In LA it would be huge to have even 20% of the commuters run zero emissions vehicles. Many people drive a car that is practically 100% a commuter for <100 miles round trip every day. An EV fits that role well. For road trips on the weekends, there usually still is a petroleum minivan to take ... That's what I am seeing for the mid term future - we will have these for commuters / second cars. I'd buy one if it wasn't an arm and a leg ... edit: look at the performance numbers (0-60) - faster than my 993. ![]() G ![]() Tesla Model S arrives with big hopes riding on it | TG Daily Quote:
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Information Junky
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: an island, upper left coast, USA
Posts: 73,167
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$50k out the door seems cheap to me. And think it looks good. ...appropriate styling. ...the Fisker, not so much (over done).
As far as moving the pollution out of the city... Have you considered that people are more and more avoiding those cities? (new construction) I see this model of everyone commuting to big cities for commerce as a quickly fading one. I mean, do you drive to El Segundo for Porsche parts? Read: computers/communications are allowing much work/commerce to be done where ever you are. --why electrically move people/bodies around when we can transport just their intentions? And, I will also not, that new mfg keeps getting push out of cities as hipsters drive up urban property costs. All you do is yammer about anything other than the topic at hand. Make it personal ... More Social experimenting, I suppose. :-/
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Everyone you meet knows something you don't. - - - and a whole bunch of crap that is wrong. Disclaimer: the above was 2¢ worth. More information is available as my professional opinion, which is provided for an exorbitant fee. ![]() |
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závodník 'X'
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Tesla is barely a blip on the screen for any or all sales but kudo's to them offering a $58,570 base list car at this level. That rear motor makes 362 hp at 6-9000 rpm and 325 lb-ft at 0-5000 rpm in the base model. Short-haul drivers can get a 40 kWh pack good for about 140 miles of EPA 5-cycle range. Forget the tax credits for a moment and just comparing some big makers offerings:
By comparison a 2012 Nissan LEAF 24 kWh battery propels the 1300-pound lighter car 73 miles. Price before tax credits is $36,000. A Ford Focus BEV is only $40,000!!!! Ooooh.
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“When these fine people came to me with an offer to make four movies for them, I immediately said ‘yes’ for one reason and one reason only… Netflix rhymes with ‘wet chicks,'” Sandler said in a prepared statement. “Let the streaming begin!” - Adam Sandler |
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Now in 993 land ...
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Information Junky
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: an island, upper left coast, USA
Posts: 73,167
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up to 85 KWh battery pack for a Tesla... Has anyone considered the the issue of how many ipads have to die to make those battery packs?
![]() So, vastly more expensive portable electronic devices, sky-rocketing lithium prices and demand, and yet where's Shawn to yell "Peak Lithium!. . Lithium is a limited resource"...? ![]()
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Everyone you meet knows something you don't. - - - and a whole bunch of crap that is wrong. Disclaimer: the above was 2¢ worth. More information is available as my professional opinion, which is provided for an exorbitant fee. ![]() Last edited by island911; 06-25-2012 at 08:44 AM.. |
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winter-hater club member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: salt lake city, utah
Posts: 24,705
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and lithium is oh-so-toxic. disposing of all those battery packs and such is going to fun.
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2000 Corvette - ????, 2007 Buell XB9R - Astrid, 1996 Discovery - Piglet, 2000 Forester "COOL PRIUS!" - Nobody Ever |
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Registered
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 7,482
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Now that Kurt Cobain is dead, where will we get more Lithium?
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I love you guys outside this forum ![]() -Eric |
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RETIRED
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1983/3.6, backdate to long hood 2012 ML350 3.0 Turbo Diesel |
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Information Junky
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: an island, upper left coast, USA
Posts: 73,167
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Quote:
Quote:
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Everyone you meet knows something you don't. - - - and a whole bunch of crap that is wrong. Disclaimer: the above was 2¢ worth. More information is available as my professional opinion, which is provided for an exorbitant fee. ![]() |
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Registered
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Location: Minneapolis
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Primary Lithium batteries are very different than Lithium Ion, according to the article
More evidence of your selective cognitive function
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I love you guys outside this forum ![]() -Eric |
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RETIRED
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Ummmm, Lithium batteries have always had an issue with fire, hence the Dell recall on laptops awhile back. Nothing new there.
ALL batteries should be recycled or disposed of correctly.
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1983/3.6, backdate to long hood 2012 ML350 3.0 Turbo Diesel |
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Registered
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I'm all for pushing the boundaries of technology. But let me get this straight. This EV is using public money (aka my money) to design/make a car. Then, I have to fork over my money to buy the car.
So, I'm paying twice for the car? In jest... |
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Registered
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Location: Minneapolis
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Half a billion.....which wouldn't even build one third of the assembly plant, let alone develop the car or the technologies
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I love you guys outside this forum ![]() -Eric |
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RETIRED
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Still don't know where the 'public money' came from......can you provide a link?
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1983/3.6, backdate to long hood 2012 ML350 3.0 Turbo Diesel |
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Information Junky
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: an island, upper left coast, USA
Posts: 73,167
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"joe" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Motors#History_and_financing
also, If Tesla sells 100k cars between now and 2015 that's another 750Million in Fed Tax subsidies. (not counting the State sales taxes waived, or the zero gas tax collected) So the point still stands - The Tesla is a heavily subsidized car. Quote:
![]() IOW, the larger points still stand. - The Tesla is a heavily subsidized car. - The Tesla uses very expensive (limited resource) ![]() - The energy density of battery tech is no where near that of hydrocarbons.
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Everyone you meet knows something you don't. - - - and a whole bunch of crap that is wrong. Disclaimer: the above was 2¢ worth. More information is available as my professional opinion, which is provided for an exorbitant fee. ![]() |
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Information Junky
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: an island, upper left coast, USA
Posts: 73,167
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Oh, and from page one...
Color me impressed when an electric car company produces a competitive sol'n w/o massive tax dollar infusions. Until then, It's a niche market and a niche product. ...a heavy, expensive rolling energy storage system which is slow to refill. :-/
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Everyone you meet knows something you don't. - - - and a whole bunch of crap that is wrong. Disclaimer: the above was 2¢ worth. More information is available as my professional opinion, which is provided for an exorbitant fee. ![]() |
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Registered
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Location: Minneapolis
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Quote:
And you have to stand there and wait for your gasoline car to fill up Do you have to wait for that sloooooow overnight recharge of the EV? Nope.
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I love you guys outside this forum ![]() -Eric |
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RETIRED
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Ah there it is.....buried in the fine print of a Wiki article.
In June 2009 Tesla was approved to receive US$465 million in interest-bearing loans from the United States Department of Energy. The funding, part of an US$8 billion program for advanced vehicle technologies (Advanced Technology Vehicles Manufacturing Loan Program), supports engineering and production of the Model S sedan, as well as the development of powertrain technology that Tesla plans to sell to other automakers.[49] The low-interest loans are not related to the "bailout" funds that GM and Chrysler have received, nor are they related to the 2009 economic stimulus package. The Department of Energy loan program was created in 2007 during the George Bush administration in order to get more fuel-efficient vehicle options to U.S. consumers and to decrease the country's dependence on foreign oil.[50]
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1983/3.6, backdate to long hood 2012 ML350 3.0 Turbo Diesel |
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Information Junky
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: an island, upper left coast, USA
Posts: 73,167
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Do you think that 10 cars delivered is "MASSIVE" in the auto industry? Wait wait. . . they've been doing this for years, re-working the Lotus Elise as their Roadster. What was the count on those re-works? ...2500? ..spread over FOUR years ...is that "MASSIVE" in the auto industry? Maybe it it's "MASSIVE" in the auto Re-work industry. :-/ Just don't go Pretending that Tesla is on par with even Hyundai. They are not. They have produce TEN cars that they can call their own. . .TEN! So, yeah, half a billion is "MASSIVE" for a producer of TEN cars or even Ten Thousand (which they have fully refundable orders.) Now how did you say it... More evidence of your selective cognitive function ![]() Your serve.
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Everyone you meet knows something you don't. - - - and a whole bunch of crap that is wrong. Disclaimer: the above was 2¢ worth. More information is available as my professional opinion, which is provided for an exorbitant fee. ![]() Last edited by island911; 06-25-2012 at 10:48 AM.. |
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