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nynor 06-26-2012 02:38 PM
graphene is just one of a few very exciting new carbon molecules. i posted a thread awhile ago about another....

island911 06-26-2012 03:15 PM
hmmm. I studied the stuff back in circa 1992, for composites.
Quote:
Originally Posted by krichard (Post 6824780)
that must be some left wing crazy whacko news source. We've been told for days now that there cannot be breakthroughs in battery technology! ;)
And the energy density improvement is . .. ?

Nobody said that there are NO improvements to battery tech. ...just that it has to improve more than incrementally. We need leaps and bounds here.

nynor 06-26-2012 03:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by island911 (Post 6824903)
hmmm. I studied the stuff back in circa 1992, for composites.

And the energy density improvement is . .. ?

Nobody said that there are NO improvements to battery tech. ...just that it has to improve more than incrementally. We need leaps and bounds here.
less, actually. the interesting thing is the amount of time needed to charge and discharge the power.

the calorie/weight issue remains (actually, it is a bit worse vs. current lithium technology).

nynor 06-26-2012 03:31 PM
it is funny how rwebb seems to think that the pollution problems, re. rare earth mining, are localized, being that the water and such flows to where, eventually? you guessed it: we are all downstream. again, just because it isn't your backyard, doesn't make it okay. or acceptable. just ask the folks downstream from where they were mining the crap here in the USA.

nynor 06-26-2012 03:33 PM
oh, and for the record, webbie, i'd much rather have the ocean rise than have my son poisoned with heavy metals and radiation from rare earth mining. perhaps your offspring will do better.

RWebb 06-26-2012 03:36 PM
don't be silly, nutnor - not only did I list downstream effects it is obviously a problem for those near a polluting mine site (assuming the mine is poorly operated)

but in no way is that a global problem

it's a pity you did not take courses in something useful while in college

nynor 06-26-2012 03:38 PM
ah.... there we go, personal attacks. i win.

island911 06-26-2012 03:44 PM
40 thousand plus posts and below is the only other time youve mentioned "polluting" with "mine" ( I searched)
Quote:
Originally Posted by RWebb (Post 6824762)
fossil fuels have become global problems because of CO2 emissions, which cause 3 problems globally:

1. ocean acidification - e.g. destruction of oysters, coral reefs, and so on
2. the favoring of plants with a certain photosynthetic pathway over others (search on CAM, C4) thereby endangering various animals that require those plants
3. climate change, which includes global warming & sea level rise

reducing the use of fossil fuels to lower levels reduces all 3 above

in contrast, mining causes problems near the mine site, downstream from the mine site, and (for coal at least) by polluting transport routes and disposal sites

for a "rare" earth metal, the problems are limited to the area of the mining site

also, they are recyclable

I have no investments in batteries, EV's, or PV solar. I do own some AEIS which you can look up to see that it has a pretty tenuous connection with this discussion. Comments here would not do much to influence a stock price any way.
So, seem Nymor's comments stand.

I await your hurled insults.

RWebb 06-26-2012 03:45 PM
what about "area of the mining site" do you not understand?

nynor 06-26-2012 03:46 PM
again.... i'd rather have my son subjected to rising oceans (debatable) than pollution from mining (certain).

thanks, island.

nynor 06-26-2012 03:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RWebb (Post 6824971)
what about "area of the mining site" do you not understand?
i understand it. do you?

this crap flows downstream to the ocean. just because it is in china doesn't make it okay. what part of that don't YOU understand? (oh, yeah, it isn't YOUR backyard....)

further, there is the air pollution. guess what? a lot of the pollution in oregon and washington state has been signature traced back to china.... how are THOSE apples?

island911 06-26-2012 03:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RWebb (Post 6824971)
what about "area of the mining site" do you not understand?
AH! . . my apologies. Mining sites (on earth) mean that the entire Earth is a mining site. ...and only "the mining site" is polluted. ...not the moon.

Sorry about that. :D

nynor 06-26-2012 04:57 PM
Can The U.S. Break China's Stranglehold On Rare Earth Metals?

"In China, rare earth mines are often responsible for egregious environmental violations, including air pollution and the production of wastewater that contains large amounts of radioactive material and acid. The pollution makes people sick, and it destroys local farmland and waterways."

How to free the world from China’s rare-earth stranglehold - The Washington Post

kaisen 06-26-2012 05:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nynor (Post 6825115)
Can The U.S. Break China's Stranglehold On Rare Earth Metals?

"In China, rare earth mines are often responsible for egregious environmental violations, including air pollution and the production of wastewater that contains large amounts of radioactive material and acid. The pollution makes people sick, and it destroys local farmland and waterways."

How to free the world from China’s rare-earth stranglehold - The Washington Post
I'm suprised you're such a greeney. I would hope your green agenda is consistent?

island911 06-26-2012 05:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaisen (Post 6825128)
I'm suprised you're such a greeney. I would hope your green agenda is consistent?
What does THAT mean?

I mean who doesn't have a "green agenda"? ...do you know anyone who Likes to breath pollution? ..or ingest heavy metals?

nynor 06-26-2012 05:12 PM
kaisen, you have no idea.

i turn my lights off. i have converted most of the house to CFL bulbs. i tore out the lawn to put in water-use-reducing plants. i keep my vehicles well maintained. i don't have central air. i shave with a safety razor, to cut down on earth-fill. i try very very hard to minimize environmental damage during oil changes, etc., with my cars and i do it myself because i don't trust the other guys.....

you?

nynor 06-26-2012 05:16 PM
is this some sort of party-line issue in your head, kaisen? webbie? et al?

it isn't a partisan issue for me. there are some serious problems with the production of EV's. one of which is POLLUTION.

island911 06-26-2012 05:17 PM
Funny, if you point to the short comings and over-promise of some so-called 'green tech' (or point to a good green-washing job) the nut cases come out of the wood work to shout you down as some evil character that they recall from watching episodes of Captain Planet in their jammies.

I know, I know, their supreme leader has told them that R's "want dirty air and dirty water" --idiots.

nynor 06-26-2012 05:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by island911 (Post 6825133)
What does THAT mean?

I mean who doesn't have a "green agenda"? ...do you know anyone who Likes to breath pollution? ..or ingest heavy metals?
i read kaisen's post as a concession, island. :)

island911 06-26-2012 05:26 PM
Everyone I know wants a green lively planet. The extremist compete for image on being MORE caring ... more extreme. I'm all about seeking knowledge and balance. The extremists latch on to ridiculous unguided causes like banning plastics. Or, massive mining for huge car batteries because it pokes at that other mining (oil). ...no balance ...no desire to understand the balance. Only a desire to look and sound the part ... some fly around on personal 757's to tout conservation. --image.


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