Hey kaisen have a question for you

[look 171]

Originally Posted by rusnak

Here's where all that silly price/value/I want a family car crazy talk will land you:

We have one, a fully loaded one and its a Toyota. that guy in the red does look just a tad better then me.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by kaisen

Not when used. You can buy a Cayenne (or Lexus RX350, or BMW X5, or MBZ ML350, or Range Rover Sport, or Audi Q7) that has significantly nicer materials, fit, and finish than a similar 4Runner for the SAME MONEY.

Or you can give up maybe $1000 of "quality" for a $10,000 savings in an Explorer. Or $200 in quality for a $5000 savings in a Nissan Pathfinder.

You'll never convince me that a 4Runner is worth that much more than every single competitor you could compare.

Buy a new one for $2000 more, great. Buy a used one for $10K more than the competition? Like I said, the market needs people like you.

As much as I enjoy pissing in the wind, my pants are soaked and you have selectively ignored everything I've said or twisted it to suit your agenda. Good luck selling an Explorer.

[speeder]

Originally Posted by kaisen

Not when used. You can buy a Cayenne (or Lexus RX350, or BMW X5, or MBZ ML350, or Range Rover Sport, or Audi Q7) that has significantly nicer materials, fit, and finish than a similar 4Runner for the SAME MONEY.

Or you can give up maybe $1000 of "quality" for a $10,000 savings in an Explorer. Or $200 in quality for a $5000 savings in a Nissan Pathfinder.

You'll never convince me that a 4Runner is worth that much more than every single competitor you could compare.

Buy a new one for $2000 more, great. Buy a used one for $10K more than the competition? Like I said, the market needs people like you.

I agree that you get more used SUV for your $$ in a Ford than a Toyota, but there is no real $10k "savings". Just like when discussing diesels, you are ignoring the very resale that makes the Toyota so much more in the first place. The Explorer would probably cost more to own for three years than the Toyota, if you factor in resale. You would lose less on the Toyota than the Ford. That is the single largest expense in owning most new or late model vehicles, particularly higher-end expensive cars and trucks.

You cannot just leave that calculation out of the equation. It assumes that everyone is going to buy a car and then drive it 'till the wheels fall off. Almost no one does that. People switch vehicles every few years. And for people who actually do keep them forever, the Toyotas usually pencil-out pretty good.

[kaisen]

Originally Posted by look 171

Actually, thats not true about the Toyota. I am open to other suggestions. I really did not look into the Nissans because I was under the impression everything has gone to unibody. The reason I wanted a Toyota us because all the ones I owned over the years, they held up with very just maintenance. My Land Cruisers were bulletproof until the head gasket went at 200k + miles. it was beaten the heck out of by me, so I got my money out.

All the debate here is really good because it get me thinking about other makes. what does it cost to ship that little out here? By the time is all done and said, its a couple thousand bucks difference.

I didn't say you were being goofy about Toyota, just that it was likely you'd buy another Toyota. They've served you well, you've had several, you stated RAV4 or 4Runner.....you're probably going to buy a Toyota.

You can find Highlanders in SoCal fairly easily. No need to ship cross country. Just an example. It's unibody, but so is a RAV4 and you said that was in the running.

Pathfinders are body-on-frame.....in fact it's based on the same frame as the Armada. Just another one to look at and consider. A 2010 is a nice truck, and mechanically every bit as good as a 4Runner (imho) for less money. I don't know whether it would pass Matt's hard plastic criteria. Maybe the cloth isn't as nice. You can also consider the Xterra -- same mechanicals, harder plastics on the dash, and five passengers where the Pathfinder is seven.

Why do you desire something body-on-frame?

[JavaBrewer]

Once you sit in a Land/Range Rover you would be hard pressed to explain why a Toyota demands similar $. I have always admired the Toyota Land Cruiser, mainly the 80 series, from the outside but hated the interior especially when accounting for the $$ they were demanding. Frankly I spend my time inside my vehicle, not admiring the outside, so that has bearing. 3 Land Rover Discoveries in the game and no regrets. No freaking way I would put up with the plastic **** interior of a 4 Runner/Land Cruiser. YMMV.

[kaisen]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

As much as I enjoy pissing in the wind, my pants are soaked and you have selectively ignored everything I've said or twisted it to suit your agenda. Good luck selling an Explorer.

So it's justified that a 4Runner is $10,000 more than an Explorer because it's "higher quality", yet they were priced similarly when new. But a vehicle that was $10,000 more than a 4Runner when new is priced similarly now. Which makes the 4Runner a good value exactly?

Your logic can't work one way but not be applied the other.

It's pretty easy to "sell" an Explorer when they're $10,000 less than a 4Runner. Ford sold more Explorers new (60K vs 45K) when they were similarly priced. What makes someone think they're worth $10K more now is beyond me.

[kaisen]

Originally Posted by speeder

I agree that you get more used SUV for your $$ in a Ford than a Toyota, but there is no real $10k "savings". Just like when discussing diesels, you are ignoring the very resale that makes the Toyota so much more in the first place. The Explorer would probably cost more to own for three years than the Toyota, if you factor in resale. You would lose less on the Toyota than the Ford. That is the single largest expense in owning most new or late model vehicles, particularly higher-end expensive cars and trucks.

You cannot just leave that calculation out of the equation. It assumes that everyone is going to buy a car and then drive it 'till the wheels fall off. Almost no one does that. People switch vehicles every few years. And for people who actually do keep them forever, the Toyotas usually pencil-out pretty good.

Pelicans argued that Apple was worth $700 a share and bought it there figuring it could only go up. It's Apple, of course it's going to go up. Now it's $450. Just because people are willing to pay stupid money for 4Runners right now doesn't mean you should "buy high".

Three years older, 40K more miles, Kelley Blue Book Private Party "Very Good":

2007 Toyota 4Runner Limited V6 4x4 with 66K miles $20,900
2007 Ford Explorer Limited V6 4x4 with 66K miles $17,700

There's a $3,200 delta. But you paid $10,000 more today.

Logic doesn't work, does it? When something is unjustifiably, illogically high in the marketplace it DOES adjust.

[aigel]

I am still driving my 01 Sequoia. 170k around the corner. Did not fall in love with the new 4Runner, as some of you may remember:

2013 Toyota 4Runner Test Drive

I made up my mind that - unless the stupid prices come down on the 4Runner - I will be buying a newer model Suburban (>2008) or a newer 1st Gen Sequoia (>2005) to replace the old Sequoia. Time to let it go will be 220k miles when the tires are bald again and the next timing belt will be due (I changed it at 110k).

G

[look 171]

Originally Posted by aigel

I am still driving my 01 Sequoia. 170k around the corner. Did not fall in love with the new 4Runner, as some of you may remember:

Why? Anything I should know or look for?

[aigel]

Sorry look - I hit the post button by accident. I since edited the post to have the link in it. I was just a little underwhelmed by the vehicle in terms of power, quality and interior design. I was getting ready to buy a brand new one, but it was north of 40k (I was imagining under 40 out the door) and did just not feel like a $40k vehicle. Especially after getting back into my $8k, 12 year old Sequoia.

G