Shooting large animals with rifles: What's the point?

[vash]

i'll dip my toe into this pool..

hunting with a rifle is sorta easy..sure i get it. but i think it takes a special kinda person willing to step into..wrong term..to put himself/herself into the responsible role of collecting meat. sure you could go to costco, but that in a way is not seeing the entire picture.

i've seen first hand the feed lots and butcher stations..the cows are not a happy lot. they seem so stressed out. an elk in a pasture, never felt that kinda fear. they were living free, living happily..living life. someone comes along and steps up the the responsibility of taking it's life. i dont take the duty lightly..i do it with as much respect as i can. quick death. eat EVERYTHING i can. i see the hunter's paradox. there is a joy and sadness to taking an animal's life.

i dont brag anymore about it. i rarely talk about it. i sure as hell wont post up any more pics..not here.

i know some families that do not buy any store bought meat. none. talking to them, i come to understand that because of this, they eat so much less meat. tiny servings every few days a week. nothing more. it is much more sacred this way.

i also argue that the meat at costco is that much more brutal to a living animal than hunting. our insatiable appetite for meat has created this huge machine of animal protien production. buying a happy cow? not many of us could afford it. a free range happy chicken in my neighborhood is $26 bucks..plucked cleaned. i can go to costco and buy a high production chicken for $5. how can happy animal production compete?

[Crowbob]

I see eating farmed meat as a way to put the poor animals out of their misery. I also think about going vegan after I eat a hearty meal, hardly ever before. In fact never.

As far as paying respect for an animal's sacrifice that I shot, I have trouble accepting said animal thought to himself, 'I think I'll stand here and let that loud stinky thing shoot me so it can eat me later'. On the other hand, taking a sacred life is definitely something that requires reverence to all living things (except broccoli, of course).

[intakexhaust]

Originally Posted by fast_e_man

Humans are at the top of the food chain, at least on this planet, that's a fact. The days of a wild animal population in balance with nature are long gone. Humans have, for the most part, wiped out predators. That means harsh or av

Oh my... top of the food chain. Just watched Louis C.K. last night. Sample this

[intakexhaust]

On a serious note, I'm not a hunter and I'll lightly refrain from this topic. Only for the reaon as one individual may be a Pelican reading this here as I've been to his home. Beyond all of our posters imagination as this particular individual is A MAJOR TROPHY HUNTER - Worldwide EXOTIC animal collector. There's also a major loophole in how they are able to collect, and approved by customs. All I will say, its intriguing to see these beautiful creatures up close (taxidermist mount / displays of course). None of this is my business and far from my interest. No further comments.

[pavulon]

Is there a big market for second-hand trophy animals? They must go somewhere when the original owner has too many or dies.

[recycled sixtie]

There is only a point to it I think if it is in self defense. Currently I am rereading a book by Sid Marty called the Black Grizzly of Whiskey Creek. The whole point of it is that a fisherman is attacked by a grizzly bear and bites half his face off. The attack is totally unprovoked. The man does survive and he was asked later if he had a gun would that have helped. He said probably not because the bear came out of the bush so quickly.

I would love to have a powerful handgun when I am out hiking/backcountry camping but it is not allowed. Dogs must be on a leash. So that leaves bear spray.

Apparently it is legal to hunt bears in Alberta and Saskatchewan but obviously not in the parks. However it is tremendous to see these great creatures such as grizzly and black bears roam freely.Not so much in town though. Cougars I don't like because they are more liable to stalk. Would I kill an animal for sport - no.

[Don Ro]

Originally Posted by motion

I grew up in Montana, and I hunted ...
I stood over that beautiful animal and watched the life leave it, and vowed to never do it again.

I grew up in North Dakota (a hunter's paradise) and hunted everything that moved & fished every body of water. Loved it.
Then, about 15 years ago, I bought a RWS Diana .177 pellet rifle and shot squirrels out of my Fig tree in the CA Bay Area. One day, as I watched a squirrel writhe and squirm in the dying process, I got a sick feeling in my stomach.
I thought of all the mammals I had killed in my lifetime - I felt sorrow.

From that moment on, I only shot tin cans & Pine cones out of the Pine tree.
I didn't need to eat *every* Fig.

[widebody911]

Originally Posted by winders

You guys are clueless. If there were not hunting seasons in the U.S., most big game animals would not have enough food available to them in the winter to support the population.

How did they manage for the millions of years before humans showed up?

[Jeff Higgins]

An empty stomach is a powerful motivator. Likewise, a constantly full one is a powerful de-motivator. I'm extremely pleased to live in an era of human development where our stomachs are full all the time and we can get all philosophical about this kind of thing - we have not always had it so good.

Unfortunately, our full stomachs have allowed us to become detached from, or even so far as unaware of, our role in nature. Animals die for us, are killed by others for us, every single day we draw a breath. Doesn't matter if one is vegetarian, vegan, or what have you - animals die every day so that your bellies can remain full and your lives can remain comfortable.

As individuals, we can choose to participate in that process, or to let others do all of it for us. I won't judge either way. It's not a pleasant process. Myself, I have chosen to participate. I feel it's important insofar as it serves to keep things in perspective. I do not enjoy killing - I've sat alone in the quiet woods, stroking the fur of whatever I just killed, literally bawling my eyes out in sorrow. But I make a solemn promise to whatever lay dead before me, that its life will not have been in vain, and its death will prolong other lives. And that not a scrap will be wasted. These have been some of the most deeply emotional, spiritual times in my life. It would be impossible to describe the feelings I have had to someone who has not had similar experiences.

So for me, it's a connection. I don't focus on the implement - I've killed with literally just about everything that goes "bang" (no bows, though). I have a deep and abiding interest in firearms that, for the most parts, stands apart from my hunting. Funny, too, the divide in the shooting world - most of my "shooting" buddies and competitors at matches don't hunt, and most of my hunting buddies don't shoot as a hobby. In other words, the guys with the most guns, who spend the most time shooting and reloading, hardly hunt. The hunters own one "hunting rifle" that comes out once a year, and gets zeroed (if at all) with what's left over in the box from last year.

I consider myself more a backpacker/outdoorsman than a hunter. I spend far more time in the field when it's not hunting season than when it is. I do pretty much all the same stuff, it's just that when it's hunting season, I'll take an animal if the opportunity presents itself. I'm always armed either way, although I'll only lug a rifle around if it's actually a hunting season. Otherwise it's a big bore single action, which makes a fine hunting tool in its own right.

As a result of my interest in shooting as a hobby unto itself, when I do take to the woods during a hunting season, it's as much about my interest in a particular gun and load combination's performance as it is in bagging an animal. I'm almost never found afield with what most would consider a "normal" hunting rifle. If I'm going to lug a rifle around, I want to learn something from it, I want to satisfy some curiosity. Taking an animal is secondary to that. Like I said, that's where it gets really emotional for me.

Anyway, that's the "why" of it all, for me anyway. Now that I'm in my fifties, I don't spend nearly the time afield that I used to, but when I do go, the reasons remain pretty much the same.

[Venetian]

As many have stated here, I used to hunt at a younger age as well until one day the thought of killing anything again completely turned me off. I have not shot anything for about 30 years.

The other issue was that I never liked the wild game taste. I know avid hunters and when I ask them about the taste they proceed to tell me how they 'doctor' the meat with spices, cooking methods, making sausage or jerky to 'kill' the venison taste.

[winders]

Originally Posted by widebody911

How did they manage for the millions of years before humans showed up?

That is an irrelevant question. We are here and dominating the landscape. The ecosystem has completely changed and if we didn't manage the game animal populations, those populations would not be as strong as they are now.

Scott

[RWebb]

the real question is which animals can be hunted and when

[nostatic]

We broke it, so we have to fix it.

That always goes well...

[winders]

Originally Posted by nostatic

We broke it, so we have to fix it.

That always goes well...

We changed it, that's for sure. With no predators and limited range and food supply, the game animal populations need to be controlled. Hunting is an effective way to do that. What do you suggest? Let "nature" control the population? We already made that not possible.....

Scott

[winders]

Originally Posted by RWebb

the real question is which animals can be hunted and when

Which is exactly what happens today. The states "Department of Natural Resources" (or equivalent) control what gets hunted, how many, and when. The states "Department of Fish and Wildlife" (or equivalent) enforce the rules put in place.

As you know, hunting seasons are timed to avoid disrupting breeding and young rearing.

Scott

[Rodsrsr]

Originally Posted by winders

Which is exactly what happens today. The states "Department of Natural Resources" (or equivalent) control what gets hunted, how many, and when. The states "Department of Fish and Wildlife" (or equivalent) enforce the rules put in place.

As you know, hunting seasons are timed to avoid disrupting breeding and young rearing.

Scott

It would appear that your entire argument is based on the belief that everyone out there "hunting" is doing so in order to save mother earth and help balance the eco-system...... While there may be a bit of truth to your position the reality is that most "hunters" for some strange reason just like killing animals. Its also interesting that the question below previously posted has still gone unanswered.


Take me through the argument behind limiting hunting and fishing licenses? Is it that "we" as a society have to control "you" as a shooter?

[winders]

Originally Posted by Rodsrsr

It would appear that your entire argument is based on the belief that everyone out there "hunting" is doing so in order to save mother earth and help balance the eco-system...... While there may be a bit of truth to your position the reality is that most "hunters" for some strange reason just like killing animals. Its also interesting that the question below previously posted has still gone unanswered.

Take me through the argument behind limiting hunting and fishing licenses? Is it that "we" as a society have to control "you" as a shooter?

I never said anything about why individuals hunt. Some hunt for meat. Some hunt for sport. Some hunt because of tradition. I am sure there many other reasons as well.

The states are tasked with managing their game animal populations. The hunting of large game animals, such as deer and elk, is highly controlled. If the animal populations support it, a limited number of tags are allocated for the hunting season. Typically the tags are for males of the species. If there are too many females in the population, tags will be issued for them as well.

You guys are just too funny. Hunters do more for game animal conservation than any of you non-hunters here do, that's for sure. You guys are huge hypocrites unless you are vegan.

Scott

[Rodsrsr]

Originally Posted by winders

I never said anything about why individuals hunt. Some hunt for meat. Some hunt for sport. Some hunt because of tradition. I am sure there many other reasons as well.

The states are tasked with managing their game animal populations. The hunting of large game animals, such as deer and elk, is highly controlled. If the animal populations support it, a limited number of tags are allocated for the hunting season. Typically the tags are for males of the species. If there are too many females in the population, tags will be issued for them as well.

You guys are just too funny. Hunters do more for game animal conservation than any of you non-hunters here do, that's for sure. You guys are huge hypocrites unless you are vegan.

Scott

Thats why we have "hunting seasons with limited licenses" because the government knows that if we didnt we would hunt them down to extinction. I dont think Im a hypocrite because I eat meat. As mentioned before, there is plenty of meat available for everyone in your local grocery store and if you consider shooting a deer with a scoped high powered rife and night vision cameras. (basically a 12 year old girl could be successful at that) than hunting just dropped to the bottom of my list of challenging outdoor activities. yawn.....

[motion]

I can possibly understand the desire to bypass hormone-growth store bought meat, but there still remain other alternatives, such as purchasing fair stock, ahmish, etc. Sure, its more expensive, but I guess your health might be worth it.

For me, the real issue is using high powered rifles with scopes to kill animals. My next door neighbor is a bow hunter. I see him practicing with a hay bail 6 months out of the year. In the 6 years I've known him, he has yet to fill his tag. For me at least, this is sporting and evening out the odds a bit, in the animal's favor.

I have another friend who kills something like 300-400 prairie dogs a day with his arsenal. He claims he's helping getting rid of unwanted prairie dogs, but I really think he just likes watching them explode.

[winders]

Originally Posted by Rodsrsr

Thats why we have "hunting seasons with limited licenses" because the government knows that if we didnt we would hunt them down to extinction. I dont think Im a hypocrite because I eat meat. As mentioned before, there is plenty of meat available for everyone in your local grocery store and if you consider shooting a deer with a scoped high powered rife and night vision cameras. (basically a 12 year old girl could be successful at that) than hunting just dropped to the bottom of my list of challenging outdoor activities. yawn.....

Comical.

Yes, there are more people that want to hunt the larger game animals than there are larger game animals. That is why it is controlled. Hunters, as a group, support these limits. Hunters want healthy game animal populations.

You obviously think hunting with a rifle is easy. It takes skill to shoot a rifle accurately...even with a scope. Do you thinks the game animals just walk up to the hunter?

Most of you guys here are clueless as to what it takes to have a successful hunt.

Scott