I've heard it all...

[RANDY P]

Originally Posted by Buckterrier

You really are warped aren't you? What in my OP said ANYTHING, ANYTHING about me thinking we are the only people to torture???? The post is about wording not the act itself

I'll ruin Christmas next if you aren't careful.

Not my fault you can't handle reality.

[sc_rufctr]

Rwanda 1994... Survivor of a Hutu death camp.

Photo credit: James Nachtwey

[VINMAN]

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

where did halloween get changed to a fall festival and for what reason? can you cite a source?

My wifes school system for one..

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by VINMAN

My wifes school system for one..

linky? not that i doubt you, im just wondering, this is the first i have herd of it.

i guess schools do make sense ... pagan holidays are always chock full of adult stuff like drinking, sex, sexually liberated women, howling at the moon etc etc lots of humanism in the pagan holiday rituals.

[RANDY P]

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

linky? not that i doubt you, im just wondering, this is the first i have herd of it.

i guess schools do make sense ... pagan holidays are always chock full of adult stuff like drinking, sex, sexually liberated women, howling at the moon etc etc lots of humanism in the pagan holiday rituals.

1) that's the first time you HERD of being PC?

Here's a link: Bexley elementary school weighs Halloween ban | The Columbus Dispatch

2)-pagan holidays are just that- halloween as it pertains to kids means trick or treating and candy. Are you implying that kids these days are too dumb to know the difference? Or Trick or Treating leads to drinking and sex?

Hint- if you are in a position that drinking and sex is a choice, don't you think you are too old to be dressing up and asking for candy?

(PS Kids these days might be, if they can't figure out simple grammar that may be proof they are. Now THAT is SCARY. BOOO!)

[manbridge 74]

Originally Posted by sc_rufctr

I agree. The problem is who makes that decision? And were does it ultimately lead you?
Very very rarely if ever is torture justified and even on the most extreme case you could still argue not to do it.

Every war ends and then you have to live with your conscience afterwards.

Many atheists here would say there is no such thing as conscience, lol. But yeah.

[gacook]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Eff that. It's stupid, but that's one of the reasons why my kids go to a Catholic school. A Catholic School gets that Halloween is a harmless kid's holiday but our ultra PC morons in public schools don't. They also celebrate Christmas, Thanksgiving, Easter, and every other normal holiday. If you don't like it you can GTFO because they don't take a dime of government money.

My kids' schools celebrate Halloween--they're even having a Halloween parade on Thursday. Not all public schools have gone full bore onto the PC route; I think it depends on where you live. I'm in Arizona, in a town/city that would probably shrivel up and die if it weren't for the Army base. My kids' elementary school celebrates the holidays (Thanksgiving, Christmas) and also gives the nod to the other religions' days. They say the pledge in the mornings and do a lot of patriotic activities. It's also consistently ranked one of the best elementary schools in the state.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

halloween is an OLD pagan holiday, like all of our holidays, id be surprised anyone besides the Christians would want to change it. its all about witches, sex, and sinning after all ... like all good holidays

EXACTLY! Yet my kids going to a Catholic school celebrate it! We had a "trunk or treat" last weekend where the kids trick or treat in the school parking lot from car to car, the kids get candy and the adults get booze. My preschooler even gets to wear a costume to school on Thursday.

Originally Posted by gacook

My kids' schools celebrate Halloween--they're even having a Halloween parade on Thursday. Not all public schools have gone full bore onto the PC route; I think it depends on where you live. I'm in Arizona, in a town/city that would probably shrivel up and die if it weren't for the Army base. My kids' elementary school celebrates the holidays (Thanksgiving, Christmas) and also gives the nod to the other religions' days. They say the pledge in the mornings and do a lot of patriotic activities. It's also consistently ranked one of the best elementary schools in the state.

Stupidity can be locally isolated. I grew up in a KS college town with the inevitable moronic influence of PC professors, we celebrated "fall festival" and "winter festival" in the 1980s.

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by RANDY P

1) that's the first time you HERD of being PC?

Here's a link: Bexley elementary school weighs Halloween ban | The Columbus Dispatch

2)-pagan holidays are just that- halloween as it pertains to kids means trick or treating and candy. Are you implying that kids these days are too dumb to know the difference? Or Trick or Treating leads to drinking and sex?

Hint- if you are in a position that drinking and sex is a choice, don't you think you are too old to be dressing up and asking for candy?

(PS Kids these days might be, if they can't figure out simple grammar that may be proof they are. Now THAT is SCARY. BOOO!)

Billy Madison - Ultimate Insult (Academic Decathlon)[Forum Weapon][How To Troll][Ignorance Is Bliss] - YouTube

[Flat Six]

Pi$$es me off that my company no longer considers Veterans' Day a holiday . . .

[matt711]

The argument that if you torture someone they will tell you whatever you want to hear and thus the info will be bogus is not true. First of all the person on the recieving end has no idea when the torture will stop. The threat of continued torure is always right there in front of the person. They have no idea when the questioning will stop nor do they know just what sort of ability the questioner has to confirm what they are bieng told. Tell a lie, more water boarding. These situations rarely occued but the results that they produced were the reason we located UBL.

Waterboarding is part of SERE training for some military memebrs and they will tell you that everyone spills the beans at some point.

[gacook]

Yes, Matt...but statistically speaking, we have found that a lot of the "information" we were provided..."under duress," was not always accurate. Some people (some of which were completely innocent) simply told their interrogators what they wanted to hear, or gave them some--ANY--BS to "make it stop."

I've been a part of a few studies done where they've determined the best route to "accurate" info is by gaining the trust of the interogatee...actually becoming their "friend," so to speak. BUT in the heat of combat, where every second counts, we don't have time for that. So, that which needs to be done to get the best possible intel is done. It's war. Nothing is pretty in war, and people need to get that through their heads.

[matt711]

I agree and that is why interogations are almost always done by a pair of people. One is the good guy, the one that can make it stop. the other is not the good guy... We only waterboarded a very limited number of detainees anyway. Not saying it's right or wrong. Given what I saw the Iraqi intell folks do, what did isnt even in the same ball park.

Just ask Allen West about the heat of combat... H egot his info but it cost him his military career.

[Ronbo]

Before I retired from CIA I had the opportunity to volunteer for waterboarding (the receiving end) as part of a training exercise. Even though it was under very controlled circumstances and I logically knew nothing was really going to happen to me, it was one of the most terrifying experiences I've had. The feeling of drowning is very real. I can't imagine what it's like being in that situation without having any control at all.

[M.D. Holloway]

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

where did halloween get changed to a fall festival and for what reason? can you cite a source?

halloween is an OLD pagan holiday, like all of our holidays, id be surprised anyone besides the Christians would want to change it. its all about witches, sex, and sinning after all ... like all good holidays

Yup.. Its just about kids dressing up and getting candy with their friends and some folks having fun putting out silly scary stuff on their lawns and custom parties...and thats about it. Anything beyond that? Me thinks not.

[1990C4S]

It's the herd mentality.

[Por_sha911]

Originally Posted by M.D. Holloway

Yup.. Its just about kids dressing up and getting candy with their friends and some folks having fun putting out silly scary stuff on their lawns and custom parties...and thats about it. Anything beyond that? Me thinks not.

This may be what you chose to do but it is NOT the origin of Halloween.

To deny its original meaning is to say that even though I am in the middle of a pro-Nazi parade, "to me it is just a nice walk on a sunny day". You can chose to ignore the origins and intent that that doesn't change them.

That said, whether you or I believe that the origins are man-made or spiritual is a topic best addressed on another day since it is a topic headed straight to PARF.

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by M.D. Holloway

Yup.. Its just about kids dressing up and getting candy with their friends and some folks having fun putting out silly scary stuff on their lawns and custom parties...and thats about it. Anything beyond that? Me thinks not.

and Thanksgiving is just about eating turkey too.

Christmas is all about cutting down pine trees as well.

[cockerpunk]

for an example of Christians hating Halloween for its pagan roots: WND Compares 'Satanic' Halloween To Violence In The Roman Colosseum | Right Wing Watch

[Por_sha911]

If you accept that there is a spiritual realm then you cannot deny the origins and current purpose of Halloween as celebrated by Satanists and other religions. If not, then lets not PARF it up by taking pot shots at Christians or any other religion.

My point was to correct the misconception that Halloween has always been about kids dressing up and getting candy.