What's next after the Arab Spring?

[widebody911]

The Arab Winter, of course

Cairo snow: Egyptian capital sees snowfall for the first time in 112 YEARS - Mirror Online

[GH85Carrera]

Dang global warming!

[livi]

yeah. what a hoax that was.

[recycled sixtie]

To the meteorologists here how do you explain global warming and the crappy winters we are experiencing? I mean lots of snow and cold temperatures. With the polar ice caps melting does that mean there is more moisture in the air and therebye more precipation. What gives?

[Chocaholic]

Just another ignoramous chiming in but....I don't think you can evaluate global warming on a day by day, or even year-by-year basis. These things happen over centuries so an overall average is involved.

And with that said....yep, a complete hoax. The Earth has been warming and cooling in cycles since the beginning of time. One good volcano would have more impact than all the exhaust pipes combined...and there have been plenty of those over the millenia.

[gacook]

"Global Warming" is a misnomer; it's "climate change." And yeah, I'm in the camp that says it's just part of earth's cycle. Have humans sped up the cyclical changes? Yeah...but not so much it's hugely noticeable.

But to the OP...Egypt got snow!?! That's pretty cool, really.

[RWebb]

It is demonstrably not just part of the Earth's cycles - scientists have shown that very clearly.

A simple way to think about this particular event, is that humans have put more energy into the atmosphere, and that energy will "come out" is some sort of storm. Beyond that, you would need to run a regional climate model that is linked to a global model - NCAR has some...

The real serious regional cooling would be a very cold Europe. The mechanism is as follows:
1. warming melts Arctic ice sheets
2. fresh water from that runs southward (lots of it)
3. that fresh water interrupts the Atlantic Conveyer System (part of which Americans call "the Gulf Stream")
4. Europe then no longer gets that input of warm water to warm its climate
5. the result would be similar to a little ice age in Europe - massive crop failures, widespread disease outbreaks, refugees and more fun stuff

BTW, climate change has 3 different components, which is why we distinguish it from global warming

the other two are ocean acidification (I hope you don't like seafood), and the favoring of certain types of plants over others due to the higher CO2 in the air (e.g. juniper trees spreading all over former sagebrush areas in the Great Basin)

[onewhippedpuppy]

Global warming became climate change, because people in Egypt might not buy carbon credits when they have snow on the ground.

Here's a good article from NASA, that expresses much of why I'm a skeptic. I believe we (man) have done many things to adversely impact the earth as related to pollution. But I don't believe we have even a shred of the data required to make a meaningful conclusion on the topic of climate change, which is part of the ordinary cycle of the Earth. To think that we can take ~100 years worth of data and extrapolate it to cover over 4 billion years of Earth climate is arrogance of the highest degree, and defies every measure of statistical relevance.

Earth's Fidgeting Climate - NASA Science

[cockerpunk]

why is it that when a heat wave comes through, i have never seen a climate change proponent post "haha, yeah thats that global warming!"

but whenever something cold happens, denialists will always post like this.

i think its a fundamental misunderstanding of the different between climate, and weather. one snow storm does not change a 60 year trend of warming.

[motion]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that 112 years is a great measure of global change. I mean, its probably the first time its snowed in Cairo in the whole history of the world, yeah?

[tadink]

Interesting discussion -

The earth has cycles, no doubt about it. But what if we -MAN- has botched up the planet so thoroughly that we have exacerbated the cycles?

I'm of a mind to think that dumping tons of misc pollution, radiation, sewage, industrial waste, and various climate change agents into the environment is probably NOT the right thing to do....just sayin'....because it probably is not helping anything.

And so, a contrary point of view might be "what if the climate deniers are wrong" and all that effort and (dare I say) hot air has been fighting against something that we probably should have acknowledged and put efforts behind to reverse? (if we can).

I really don't want to look back in 20 years and say, 'oh ****, we could have done something'.

[motion]

Originally Posted by tadink

I'm of a mind to think that dumping tons of misc pollution, radiation, sewage, industrial waste, and various climate change agents into the environment is probably NOT the right thing to do....just sayin'....because it probably is not helping anything.

For sure, there's lots of bad stuff being dumped that affects fish, reefs, ecosystems, etc. But for man to *really* have a profound affect on something as large as the earth & atmosphere is a stretch, IMHO.

The earth, ocean, & atmosphere are so huge. Despite what people say about the "garbage patch", polluted oceans, etc., the oceans are really very healthy and in perspective, are very tiny, compared to the earth itself.

How Much Water is Available? | Science Features

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

why is it that when a heat wave comes through, i have never seen a climate change proponent post "haha, yeah thats that global warming!"

but whenever something cold happens, denialists will always post like this.

i think its a fundamental misunderstanding of the different between climate, and weather. one snow storm does not change a 60 year trend of warming.

that's part of it

another problem is that some narrowly trained person thinks they are a climate scientist

the biggest effect is the tons of money that the coal & oil industries have spent to create doubt in the vast majority of people who don't understand things - much like the tobacco industry did with smoking and lung cancer

in fact the same PR flacks who ran the tobacco industry campaign are now working for the coal & oil industries

[widebody911]

Wow! You guys could PARF-up a wet dream!

[kiwiokie]

Originally Posted by motion

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that 112 years is a great measure of global change. I mean, its probably the first time its snowed in Cairo in the whole history of the world, yeah?

I have read that Egypt had a wet climate with consistent rainfall about 10,000BC but not sure about snow.

[Cajundaddy]

Originally Posted by kiwiokie

I have read that Egypt had a wet climate with consistent rainfall about 10,000BC but not sure about snow.

According to the paleo guys that was the "green sahara" during the climate optimum period. Back when the earth was a few degrees warmer than it is today and N Africa was a tropical paradise. It was a time of plenty where man, plants and animals thrived globally.

My take on climate change FWIW: Yes the northern hemisphere has been warming steadily over the last 300 years since the little ice age. Massive amounts of manmade CO2 dumped into the atmosphere likely play a role in that warming. The gloom and doom scenarios proposed by the politically motivated within the IPCC is not supported by current scientific evidence. It probably will continue to warm but no one really has a clue how much warming or what the effects might be. Should we curtail the use of fossil fuels over time and reduce our impact on the atmosphere? Probably a good idea.