"Tiny Houses" and "Off The Grid"

[jyl]

The "where will you retire" thread got me thinking about "tiny houses" and living "off the grid".

So I went looking for cool tiny houses. Take a look at some of these.

tiny houses – small dwellings of every shape and size

Suppose you found the perfect property - on the Central California Coast, in Puget Sound, in the Sierras, whatever your taste - and wanted to make a pied a terre for your retirement years. Maybe just as one of a few places you would rotate between, or maybe as your full time home base.

How big a place would you need? Could you see yourself living in a place as small as shown in the link above?

(Let's presume you can also put up a garage, workshop, studio, man cave, etc on the property.)

Next question - often the prettiest bits of land are far from utilities. Could you see living off the grid?

By that I mean solar panels/storage batteries, emergency generator, well, septic field/tank pump out, satellite internet, etc.

(I don't fully know the limitations and constraints of off-the-grid living. I assume the main one is electrical.)

[porsche4life]

I think I could do with a one or two shipping container home somewhere in the mountains...

I could live off the grid, but only if it was a necessity. I'm pretty fond of running water, and lights and heat... Oh, and Internet.

[LWJ]

John,
The question here is "can I stay married and live off the grid?" Nope.

Larry

[nostatic]

I think the main issues of being off the grid are water and septic. The electrical is pretty easy to solve with solar and efficiency.

Part of my problem is that I want to play live music, so I can't really be out in the boonies. Spending a bunch of time away from everyone else isn't really the goal for me - just less density.

As for house size, I've lived in apartments under 1K sq ft in the past few years so I'm fine with a house around 800 sq ft plus or minus.

[Cajundaddy]

Agreed that clean water and sanitation are the greatest challenges. I could live in a tiny house off the grid but I sorta like the grid. Clean water, sewer, reliable power and food supply are good things IMO. Whenever I see pics of tiny houses off the grid I think of Ted Kaczynski.

[jyl]

I'm imagining being five or ten miles out from a town that is small but still has stuff going on including music, art, etc. Easy enough to go into town daily, far enough to make utilities impractical to run.

Sewage seems not terribly hard - a septic tank that gets pumped out as needed, and you'd design the house to separate gray water from black water.

Fresh water - hmm, in the PNW you could use rain water collection/filtration for washing, and bottled or tap water from town for drinking/cooking. In California, off grid water might be tricky, unless groundwater was shallow enough.

I imagine that you can get internet most places that aren't too remote, using satellite down and cellular up, if not LTE all the way.

In the PNW, electricity could be tricky. We don't get much sun in the winter. Might have to combine solar PV + solar water heat + wind + battery + diesel genset. In CA, I'd think solar + batteries + backup diesel genset would be the way to go.

Heat from wood and propane, seems simple enough in the PNW where firewood is ample.

As for size of house - we'd have to downsize massively but I'll want to do that. 1000 sq ft would be perfectly fine. 500 sq ft would be doable too. Not sure what the wife would think about much smaller, but if she had her own separate studio/girlcave and it was sunny and warm, I think she'd be okay. In the California climate, seems you can live in outdoors space much of the time anyway.

[look 171]

The answer is no, but it would be fun for a couple of weeks. Beats going camping as my wife would say. For a permanent resident I, or we (if my wife don't kick my ass out by then) will need at least a two bedroom home around 1000 sq'. Escape to a small cabin would be cool for a few weeks but it has to be a couple hours from a small to a mid size city. No offense intended, but what is your fascination with tiny homes and living off grit?

[jyl]

I've always been fascinated with compact little living spaces - boats, trailers, tiny houses. I've lived for two months in a campervan, and I lived for a year in small hotel rooms. Maybe it's silly but the simplicity of it is cool.

As for off the grid, I'd rather be "on" - but I was wondering if technology has progressed enough to make "off" livable? Grid-tie is perfectly livable already, not sure about fully off-grid.

[look 171]

This was a time you had to do this to survive or by choice? I think it would be cool to be in a camper van but now that I am older, I am not sure if I can tolerate the confine space? Do you really think you can do this again given what you have now with your wife (let just say the kids have gone off on their own)? I just can't live in a tiny place like that with my wife. She will kill me by the end of the month.

[GWN7]

I had a buddy that lived in a milk truck for 2 years. He insulated the walls and used to park in apartment block parking lots for power in the winters. He had a couch, TV, VCR, hot plate and a bar fridge. He showered at work. Ate at restaurants and washed his clothes at a laundromat. It started out because of necessity but he then started to save $$ to visit Australia. He went there, met a girl who's dad had bank and he's never been back.

[tweezers74]

JYL, I am totally fascinated too. After I stayed in a one room cabin with a loft just big enough for a bed in Montana, I have been hooked. I look at the tiny house listings daily. I don't think I could TOTALLY live off the grid, although I shouldn't say never. I didn't think I could live off of TV with kids but haven't had TV for about five years now. Granted, I would need something every once in a while (we use Hulu about once a week for the boys. I don't watch anything). I think I would at least need Internet. I wouldn't mind living in one somewhere in the mountains or a little outside of town. Either way.

And to answer john's question, yes, I think I could go to this even after what I have now. The older I get, the more I realize so much I have is waste. Wasted space, wasted junk. Some of the stuff I have is because I created a need for it, not because I really needed it. And only very little of it brings me joy. If I moved in one of these tiny places, I would be forced to only bring the things that I loved. And I would probably be forced to use them every day. That idea seems so lovely to me. And if I continued to work, my money would be more wisely used on the things that I truly treasure, like food, travel, experiences, rather than on things that I created the need for. And if I didn't continue to work, I could easily sustain myself living in a small place like that, just less travel and everything else. The simplicity intrigues me. I think city life and the society we have today causes so much "noise" in our heads. Nice to get back to nature. Simple. Calm. Peace.

As far as living with someone in that confined space, I can't really speak to that because I have kids still in the house and no spouse. But when the kids move out, I would seriously consider it. And if I had a partner, I think it could still be done. Especially if it was in the mountains. I would never be inside. And I am thinking AZ where the weather doesn't get crazy crazy cold. I would hike, do yoga, snowboard, snowshoe, cut firewood. Whatever. But outside. I love being outside. The outside would be the rest of your "house".

Maybe I am being idealistic and it's harder than it looks but I am game to try it. My father has a condo in Europe that is very small that they spend time to time in and it is surprisingly functional. I think Americans are used to everything supersized, including me. Would be nice to try the other way.

[KFC911]

If you want to practice "downsizing" first, go live on a sailboat . Not for me, but lots of folks do...my buddy lived on his 30'er for a while back in the day, and his parents lived on a 72'er in San Diego Harbor for a while too. Now the America's Cup Marina is a LONG way from being "off the grid", but out of necessity they learned to do without "all their stuff" too...

ps: They had several houses (to fall back on), but it's certainly a "different lifestyle"....and they loved it.

[LWJ]

Back in the conversation. There are lots of places in Hawaii that use railwater as the only fresh water supply. Solar would be easy there also. Wife's cousin bought a lot near Pahoa (sp?) for about $8k. She says $25k more gets a cabin that does all she needs. With numbers that low, you could have two!

I am also intrigued by this but as a part-time thing. We have forest land South of Corvallis that I could build or bring a shipping container to if desired. I would love it. Back to my wife? Not so much.

Larry

[WPOZZZ]

Originally Posted by LWJ

Back in the conversation. There are lots of places in Hawaii that use railwater as the only fresh water supply. Solar would be easy there also. Wife's cousin bought a lot near Pahoa (sp?) for about $8k. She says $25k more gets a cabin that does all she needs. With numbers that low, you could have two!

I am also intrigued by this but as a part-time thing. We have forest land South of Corvallis that I could build or bring a shipping container to if desired. I would love it. Back to my wife? Not so much.

Larry

Pahoa is definitely out in the boonies, but lots of places on the Big Island have/had catchment systems. My property out in Kapoho had neighbors that had catchment systems, but that was years ago. The subdivision put in a water system about 10 years ago to service the community.

If I were to live in a small house, I think I could get by with 1000 sq ft, maybe less. I inherited a house from my grandmother that was just under 1k and renovated it. It was pretty damned spacious for the sized and my realtor thought the sq footage was wrong.

Not sure I could live off the grid as I'd need internet to keep me occupied. Solar water heater and a PV system with batteries could give me the power I need for lighting and communications. Running water however, would be a must.

[oldE]

If the wife had her way, we'd cut the power lines.
We are 1/4 mile off the highway, solar heating for the water, wood stove and electric for space heating.
There seems to be a lot of concern over water and septic here. Trust me; it is not a problem. My well is 130' deep with a submersible pump and a pressure tank in the house. The only time you are aware of it is if you happen to hear the solenoid click. It is 220v, but 110v systems are available. Septic system/drain fields are a lot easier around here than 30 years ago., the field is built in a berm above ground.

I spoke with a family last summer who are off grid. When they selected their building site, about half a mile from the nearest power line, their choice was $30K+ for power lines or $15k for solar, wind , batteries and a back-up generator. For him, the choice was easy.

Best
Les

[jyl]

Les, what is your internet solution "out there"?

[jyl]

With numbers that low, you could have two

That's something I was thinking about. Suppose you wanted to split time between a northern place and a southern place, maybe you could do it via two off grid tiny houses at say $70-100K each.

[dennis in se pa]

To my mind "Off Grid" is like the guy in "Alone in the Wilderness" (ie. no nothing).

What is it with this dependency on utilities anyway? People puffing up their chests that they are Off Grid, but have solar systems for electricity.

I don't know that I could do it totally, but remember that until 100 years ago or so everyone had no electricity, and only city folk had water and sewer. The less density perspective is probably to more achievable.

[GH85Carrera]

Off the grid is one of the romantic ideas that I suspect would totally SUCK in reality.

I don't even want to try. I like the modern running water and grocery store. One toothache or broken bone makes modern living more than a convenience. Going to the corner gas station to get a 6-pack or running to the store for fresh fruit and an ice cream cone is not something I am going to go without.

And the biggest thing is I NEED my three car garage and my cars.

[recycled sixtie]

Jyl good thread. It would be great to have a little cabin in the middle of nowhere where the govt. does not know that you are there. No property taxes! If you did not have a road in then you would either hike in or fly in. There are stories written of people flying themselves in (Ralph Edwards of Lonesome Lake). After reading his book he said that he split up with his wife at the end. As mentioned above some wives may not be too happy living in isolation for a long time.

I agree that living off grid could be challenging but could be achieved for short periods of time. If a person had a Cessna 180 on floats then you could pick and choose many choice spots in Northern British Columbia and the Yukon. Build yourself a little cabin.Nobody would have to know where you went. That could be a problem though if you had an engine problem for instance.

I think that the amenities we have in the city we take for granted. I could not imagine us living on an acreage where you have to drive to get milk! Good concept Jyl for some people but I would need a Cessna 180 on floats = about $100k for starters....

Probably for us the best way to get some isolation time would be to rent a place in the middle of nowhere. Fly in or drive in. The off grid situation would wear pretty thin after a while.