"Tiny Houses" and "Off The Grid"

[Shuie]

I could definitely live in one of those as long as I also had a detached 6000 sq.ft garage/workshop with all of the amenities.

[Seahawk]

A good friend of mine is "off grid" on a small ranch near Kennedy Meadows, California in the Sierras.

Their house is about 1000sf with a wrap around porch that adds a lot of usable outdoor space. They put in a small barn for the horses, hay storage and the like. The house is about as fireproof as you can make it (metal roof, concrete siding, etc.) and extremely well insulated. It looks like a typical mountain cabin.

He installed solar and wind that feed a bank of batteries that can run the house for days. He has a well with a storage tank above the house. Wood stove for heat that can easily be used as a cook top. Not sure on his septic set up.

I helped him install in ground diesel and propane tanks for his trucks and routine heating and cooking needs. Each are 500 gallons.

They have satellite internet and phone. For back-up communications they also have a dedicated sat phone for emergencies.

His wife lives there full time 8 - 9 months a year. They have a small ranch near Inyokern, California about an hour drive from Kennedy Meadows. She spends the heavy duty winter months there.

DA works at NAS China Lake and heads up the mountain every Friday and returns early Monday.

They absolutely love the remoteness and solitude of Kennedy Meadows. They bought the property a long time ago and spent a lot of time up there in a trailer before they built.

I pick his brain all the time since he lives the lifestyle 8 - 9 months out of the year.

Besides designing the house and required appliances to be as efficient as possible, he said the best tip he got was to over plan the battery requirement by twice what you think you'll need, set up the battery storage area to be as cool and accessible as possible: He basically dug out a root cellar under the house and the battery banks is down there, heated and cooled as required.

He is on year 10 with his set up and is very attentive to battery and conditioner maintenance.

[oldE]

Originally Posted by jyl

Les, what is your internet solution "out there"?

The Province of Nova Scotia (pop <1 million) decreed there would be a minimum internet signal speed available. Various companies have been allotted sectors of the province to provide service in 'fringe areas. The cost is $46.95, regardless of where you are or what equipment it takes to get the signal to you.

I live 5 miles from Annapolis Royal, a town of about 500. If I was within 3 miles, I would be hooked into the Bell Aliant lines, although my 1/4 mile driveway might pose a problem. Because of my location, another company provided an antenna which is pointed at a tower about five miles away on the mountain. Most of the time it is not too bad, but when there are demands on the signal, it can take 5 minutes to load a page of "Random Pics" (especially if some Pelican has posted a bunch of video clips).

It isn't the best, but it is OK.

Best
Les

[recycled sixtie]

Originally Posted by oldE

The Province of Nova Scotia (pop <1 million) decreed there would be a minimum internet signal speed available. Various companies have been allotted sectors of the province to provide service in 'fringe areas. The cost is $46.95, regardless of where you are or what equipment it takes to get the signal to you.


Les

It sounds like you have the best of both worlds Les.

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by recycled sixtie

Jyl good thread. It would be great to have a little cabin in the middle of nowhere where the govt. does not know that you are there. No property taxes! If you did not have a road in then you would either hike in or fly in. There are stories written of people flying themselves in (Ralph Edwards of Lonesome Lake). After reading his book he said that he split up with his wife at the end. As mentioned above some wives may not be too happy living in isolation for a long time.

I agree that living off grid could be challenging but could be achieved for short periods of time. If a person had a Cessna 180 on floats then you could pick and choose many choice spots in Northern British Columbia and the Yukon. Build yourself a little cabin.Nobody would have to know where you went. That could be a problem though if you had an engine problem for instance.

I think that the amenities we have in the city we take for granted. I could not imagine us living on an acreage where you have to drive to get milk! Good concept Jyl for some people but I would need a Cessna 180 on floats = about $100k for starters....

Probably for us the best way to get some isolation time would be to rent a place in the middle of nowhere. Fly in or drive in. The off grid situation would wear pretty thin after a while.

I don't know about Canada but in the states you will never be so far out in the country to own property and not pay property taxes. You might be able to squat on someone's property for a while but you will not own the land and can get arrested and thrown off the land if you don't rent or own.

[recycled sixtie]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

I don't know about Canada but in the states you will never be so far out in the country to own property and not pay property taxes. You might be able to squat on someone's property for a while but you will not own the land and can get arrested and thrown off the land if you don't rent or own.

I am sure there must be a few folks who have properties in the middle of nowhere and the Federal Govt. does not know they exist. Once you start building roads into the middle of nowhere you then become visible. Flying into a lake leaves very few traces but ideally you are supposed to state to a Flight service station where you are going in the event of an emergency.

I have no idea of the tax status of individuals who have flown into the bush and built themselves a cabin. However I do enjoy reading stories of people who have built a homestead in the middle of nowhere. When you think that virtually everything has to be flown in except what you catch or shoot the logistics are challenging.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by jyl

Les, what is your internet solution "out there"?

Dish Offers "4G" type Sat Service. You won't get Cable 25-100 Mbps speed, but you definitely can get 2-5Mbps for under $99/mth.

I setup some remote monitoring systems and opted for this type of service instead of cellular. At the time it was 500Kbps. And that was plenty fast enough for what we needed.

I would love to do a Tiny House in the 119 sq feet region. Heat would be wood stove/propane. Battery Bank built under the house. Enough Solar and Wind to charge the batteries and run electricity. Very efficient 9000BTU A/C. Toilet on one side, shower closet on the other. Septic tank. Open downstairs with seating for 2, and a small Flat-screen. Maybe a laptop. Water well run off the battery system. And a small generator (8KW) as backup power. "Bedroom" would be a loft over everything. I would "seal" it with spay foam insulation and get at least 8" of wall insulation. I expect it will be cozy.

All of the above is doable for $50K, not including the land. And maybe with land west of here which is under $10K/acre for a good area.

And I would probably enjoy the ensuing divorce...

[jyl]

Here is a "tiny house" that looks very livable to me. I could see having two - one to live in, one as the wife's studio/retreat, then an 800 sq ft workshop/garage for me. (Sorry about the horrible HGTV video host-chick, shoot her in the head please.)

The 'Yestermorrow' House Will Change Your Mind About Tiny Homes

[KNS]

Originally Posted by recycled sixtie

I am sure there must be a few folks who have properties in the middle of nowhere and the Federal Govt. does not know they exist. Once you start building roads into the middle of nowhere you then become visible. Flying into a lake leaves very few traces but ideally you are supposed to state to a Flight service station where you are going in the event of an emergency.

I have no idea of the tax status of individuals who have flown into the bush and built themselves a cabin. However I do enjoy reading stories of people who have built a homestead in the middle of nowhere. When you think that virtually everything has to be flown in except what you catch or shoot the logistics are challenging.

You can fly many places still in the US that no one, not even a Flight Service Station, needs to know where you are going. Filing a flight plan is recommended but not required. Many general aviation pilots in small planes (flying locally, at least) never file a flight plan.

While I was flying in Alaska I remember looking down below often and seeing a little cabin with a small plane parked (or moored) nearby and not a road anywhere in sight.

[Geary]

I lived off-grid for years, 1000 sq ft house by Pilale Bay (Maui). 600W wind generator, rain catchment, solar water heater. I'd do it again in a heartbeat, now that I'm retired.

[RWebb]

the tiny house thing is a bit of a fad, but it is common here - will be interesting to see what happens with it

my guess is that house size is related to climate (outdoors living in good weather) and to having other hangouts nearby (like a coffee shop to sit in for 5 hours a day)

does an apt. built on top of a 4 car garage (as wanted by many male motorheads...) qualify?

you can also use a tiny house on your property as a studio (or refuge) - to AVOID divorce

BTW - you already own a tiny house that can be on or off the grid - as i recall you recently put a new motor in it too...

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

Off the grid is one of the romantic ideas that I suspect would totally SUCK in reality.

I lived 8 months a year way off the grid when I was younger - in wilderness areas; just me and my field notes and some scientific instruments

for 4 years I skied in to my study sites, up to 25 miles each way

next 5 years, it was only a 7 mile ski each way

after that, I had to use the word processor more than the statistics package and the programming languages (or vis-calc after it and the PC were created), and I had to run my lab, teach students, yada-yada - it is much more fun to be a graduate student off the grid than a professor on the grid

once you get older, then you definitely need access to medical care, mattresses, and other luxuries


You can also find some info on Gary Snyder and his cabin in the Sierras - the local realtors even use him as a marketing tool to sell similar properties to people wanting the simple life - I'm not sure if he also had an apt. in Davis once he started his professorship gig at UCD or if he commuted, or couch surfed - he was older then tho

He has one great story about his life in the cabin - he'd trek to a nearby spring or stream for water just like when he was a fire lookout and wilderness trail worker living in a tent earlier in life. He had no electricity... until he bought a generator. Now, why did he buy a generator??? So his daughters could blow-dry their hairdo's. He'd go crank it up - they'd do their "fixin' up" and then he'd shut it down until the next morning. Daughters will do that to a man.

[McLovin]

Originally Posted by jyl

I've always been fascinated with compact little living spaces - boats, trailers, tiny houses. I've lived for two months in a campervan, and I lived for a year in small hotel rooms. Maybe it's silly but the simplicity of it is cool.

As for off the grid, I'd rather be "on" - but I was wondering if technology has progressed enough to make "off" livable? Grid-tie is perfectly livable already, not sure about fully off-grid.

I have too. I live in a house that is much smaller than average, and never feel the need for more. I see bigger houses, with a bunch of empty unused rooms, etc. and it just looks like more headache to me.

For 2 people, I think 800 is totally doable, esp. if well planned.

Off the grid, hmm, not sure about that, though. Electricity probably wouldn't be a problem given modern tech, but water could be. I suppose, though, you could have a huge water tank that gets filled up when needed, and a septic system, solar, etc. Would have to be somewhere where you could pick up cellular and Internet, for sure, though. That would be a deal killer for most.

[KFC911]

Don't discount the "boat" idea I offered up earlier. I've actually known quite a few that live that lifestyle (certainly not for me) and love it. They're "off the grid" until they don't want to be and then pull into a marina for "civilization" (and all the luxuries one desire$). It's downright yachty

[intakexhaust]

^^^ Some of you NW pelicans can probably better explain. Some years back when the commercial fishing slowed, trawlers were being unloaded for cheap and when smaller cargo tubs were no longer efficient to run, there were a plenty available for near scrap.

BIL is into yachting and mentioned the crazy thought of buying a steel barge for scrap prices and doing a conversion. You would have to get a captains license or hire one when you want to move around but doable.

[futurefun]

This is the third off the grid house I have lived in each time with a lady, always a fun adventure. A dozen panels, sixteen big batteries, a gas/propane generator power an electric refrigerator, freezer etc.. We do pay attention to energy use but our lights & computer are on when storms take out the power lines in the area. Our system was a little less than the $30K that the power company wanted to bring a transformer to the property line. Deep well, septic system, no street lights mess up the view of the stars at night. I don't miss Malibu.

[look 171]

Why are some of us are so fascinated with this type of living? I am one of them myself, but knowing full well it will wear on me rather fast. This is mainly a boy thing, not many women are into this it seems? Is this why there are so many shows like living in remote Alaska or whatever they are called? I watch them when I flipped channels and enjoy them, including those survival shows with that guy Les from Canada. Still, I love to have a small cabin somewhere with solar but running water and a bathroom, we just can't deal with outhouses. I suppose a large workshop is included somewhere in the deal.

[ckelly78z]

When I retire, i'm not really looking to make my life more difficult by living off the grid. When I was younger and healthier (history of heart failure and other cancer treatment side effects) It was my dream to have 50-100 acres in Northern Michigan along a lake shore and live mostly off the grid.

Being in a Northern climate, I couldn't survive in a tiny house all Winter without going nutso, so I believe an 800 sq ft well insulated cabin with a full basement would be ideal. I would then have a 60x100 pole barn to house our horses, chickens, tractors and implements, truck, self raised hay supply, mechanics shop, and other motorized toys.

I would heat it all with a large outside woodburner, and supply the electrical needs with a diesel genset/batteries and wind generator, and then have a propane fridge, stove, water heater, and back up heat. The house would have efficiency in mind, but honestly, you can run all the big appliances suchas the washer drier, microwave, showers, all while running the genset and charging the batteries for 2 hours in the evening.

[Captain Ahab Jr]

What a great thread, I just checked and my mountain house is 1400sq ft.as mentioned I don't see the point of having big empty unused rooms in a house. Better to make more effecient use of something smaller. Extra room usually just means more junk that you don't use very often.

All the rooms are small, we have 3 bedrooms, 2 double, 1 single and abathroom upstairs, a kitchen/diner, living room, down stairs toilet downstairs. Could do with more storage space but with a bit of clever interior design don't think this will be an issue. For me it has a garage big enough for one car and be able to work around it, a small workroom (man cave) and storage space for outdoor toys.

With the outdoors on our door step we don't really need anything bigger but that doesn't stop me dreaming about adding another floor on top so I can have a large room with lots of glass to make even more of the views.

No plans to go as extreme as dropping off the grid as it is in a small village so no need to make living any harder. I will add triple glazing, a lot of insulation on all the walls and roof, solar panels to reduce electricity consumption, wood pellet boiler, underfloor heating, rain water harvester, low energy appliances and lighting, glazing the south side to help heat inside using the winter sun.

I really want to go green with this home to try and make up for my working life of automotive sin.

To make the house feel bigger by bringing the outside in we will also add plenty of decking on two sides with easy access straight on to it. This will also give me room to build a wood burning heated carbon fibre hot tub.

[intakexhaust]

^^^ Some of this discussion of 'off the grid' defeats the purpose for some. Is it about economics OR is it about hiding under the radar for whatever the reason? For example wouldn't all that diesel fuel cost, the initial cost and maint. of a genset, solar / batt. storage systems add up more than just some clean and simple feed of electricity from a supplier?