How I found out my Boxster was worth more than I...

[recycled sixtie]

thought and how a prospective buyer got angry at me. I advertised my 2001 Boxster base with 45k miles for sale on Edmonton internet(kijiji). Ad went like this:
2001 Boxster base with 45k miles - mechanics special, needs engine work. $8500 or make me an offer I can't refuse.

Most Boxsters in this part of the world are upwards of $16k can.
Bell has advised me on probable repair costs so I thought I was in the ball park.
Must have had 20 responses mostly asking about the CEL light which was now extinguished and now ready to show its ugly head again.Problem had been diagnosed at considerable cost by an Edm. indy - CEL light which gives code of P1341(cam deviation of 9.2 bank 1, permissible is 5 degrees).Service advisor says engine should be dropped plus new ims and check clutch while in there $6000 can. Thanks also goes to FastFred who has just advised me that CEL can come back later after it has been reset.

To shorten up the story here is what happened yesterday. A man in his 60's comes over in his red 97 Boxster with the top down. He gets his lap top and code reader out and finds there is no code. He takes it for a test drive and he says this is a beautiful car but needs new sway links. He says there is nothing wrong with this car. After a 45 minute test drive we get out of the car and I am starting to think this car is worth more than I thought. This man says he buys more cars than he sells and has a collection of cars in a storage shed. I have not concluded that he is a curber yet but if he was he would have known that the cel light would come back sooner or later.

To conclude the meeting he offered me $8500. I declined because I now knew that it was worth more because he told me there was nothing wrong with it!
He then upped the offer to $8600 and I declined and I said that I would think about it and call him back tomorrow. He said he was not available tomorrow and got angry. Anytime people give me deadlines and get angry I withdraw. Anyway perhaps he has the right to get angry because he offered me what I initially asked for and then some. But his mistake was he said there nothing wrong with the car which gave me hope that it was worth more.

In the meantime my plan is likely to flatbed it to Calgary( I will rent a flatbed truck and drive it myself) and take it to a trusted indy shop( Lithium Automotive ). I am waiting for a fixit quote from them) hoping it will be less $$$ than here in Edmonton. In the meantime Bell and Fastfred thanks a ton. Guys like you make this forum great. Have an interesting day like I did yesterday!
Guy.
PS I did reply to every inquiry about the car and told them why I was removing the ad.

[Paul_Heery]

Wow! let me ask, if the guy had kept his mouth shut and handed you $8,500 would you have accepted it?

[on2wheels52]

I expect you'll get some interesting replies.
Jim

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by recycled sixtie

....To conclude the meeting he offered me $8500. I declined because I now knew that it was worth more because he told me there was nothing wrong with it!
He then upped the offer to $8600 and I declined and I said that I would think about it and call him back tomorrow. He said he was not available tomorrow and got angry. Anytime people give me deadlines and get angry I withdraw. Anyway perhaps he has the right to get angry because he offered me what I initially asked for and then some. But his mistake was he said there nothing wrong with the car which gave me hope that it was worth more.
.....

First of all, I think YOU are worth WAY more than a Boxster

I understand where the guy is coming from...he's sounds like a "straight shooter", and from his perspective, you simply wasted his time and YOU went back on you word and backed out on a "deal" that you initiated by your ad imo. Good luck on the car though!!!

ps: I know many will disagree with my perspective.

[recycled sixtie]

Originally Posted by Paul_Heery

Wow! let me ask, if the guy had kept his mouth shut and handed you $8,500 would you have accepted it?

Very good question Paul. Fortunately my wife and I are a great team. After the test drive she came over and introduced herself to the prospective buyer to suss him out. Before this meeting she was talking about the prospective buyers bidding up the price in a bidders' war. So this was in the back of my mind.

However being very lucky to get $8500 as a trade in on a new car, I might have jumped at it. But in the back of my mind was my wife saying have a bidders' war so it was easy to decline an offer from a smooth operator buyer that gives me a deadline and gets angry.

I know the cost minimum to fix the CEL problem will be $2000 and as much as $6000+ if I do the ims plus clutch so now topside I am looking at $8500 + 7000 and that still brings the total to $15500 which is below the average sale price of a 2001 base Box of about $17000 here(that is one reason Canadians import US cars). So I think it is worth fixing properly. I know that we have about max 3 months of top down driving left but if necessary I can wait till spring to sell it. After having paid $18500 3 years ago and have done 15k miles I really believe fixed up it is worth more.
Guy

[onewhippedpuppy]

If I showed up to test drive a car, offered the advertised price, then was declined - I'd be freaking pissed too. Sorry, but you just wasted his time. In my mind advertising a car is like writing a contract, he signed your contract which you then wadded up and threw in the trash. The fact that you don't know what is/isn't wrong with your car is immaterial. Integrity is typically defined as doing what you say you will do. I'd say you fail this test.

BTW, I buy and sell a lot of cars. I've had cars sell in hours - probably means I wasn't asking enough. I've held cars for out of town buyers, and had local buyers offer me above asking price to sell it to them instead. Pretty bad karma to screw somebody over like that.

[dewolf]

So what is actually wrong with the car?? Variocam actuator or something??

[recycled sixtie]

Originally Posted by KC911

First of all, I think YOU are worth WAY more than a Boxster

I understand where the guy is coming from...he's sounds like a "straight shooter", and from his perspective, you simply wasted his time and YOU went back on you word and backed out on a "deal" that you initiated by your ad imo. Good luck on the car though!!!

ps: I know many will disagree with my perspective.

KC you are absolutely right in your assessment. I did waste his time. He was a straightshooter. But he also provided a window of opportunity because he had more knowledge than I had. However "$8500 or make me an offer I can't refuse" leaves some wiggle room! G.

[recycled sixtie]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

If I showed up to test drive a car, offered the advertised price, then was declined - I'd be freaking pissed too. Sorry, but you just wasted his time. In my mind advertising a car is like writing a contract, he signed your contract which you then wadded up and threw in the trash. The fact that you don't know what is/isn't wrong with your car is immaterial. Integrity is typically defined as doing what you say you will do. I'd say you fail this test.

BTW, I buy and sell a lot of cars. I've had cars sell in hours - probably means I wasn't asking enough. I've held cars for out of town buyers, and had local buyers offer me above asking price to sell it to them instead. Pretty bad karma to screw somebody over like that.

Matt you are right. So if it makes me a bad person because he gave me hope so be it. Because he said the car was in great shape then the prospective buyer is stupid.
Did I set him up intentionally? No.
Guy

[strupgolf]

Wow, if you think a 2001 base boxster is worth 16k, you must be in thinner air. They are all around the midwest from $6500 to 12,000 all day long. Call the guy back, apoliguse, take his $8500 and be done with it. I'd be pissed too if a seller renigged on the asking price. Bad way to sell a car.

[recycled sixtie]

Originally Posted by dewolf

So what is actually wrong with the car?? Variocam actuator or something??

Either the cam actuator on bank 1 is either burned out or the adjuster is stuck. From my non technical mind then I consider that is minimum that is wrong with it. Estimated about $3000 in us but local indy shop wants to drop engine, ims, clutch etc. $6k. The latter is not going to happen.

The interesting thing is that with the CEL light out I could sell as is but likely cel light will come on again. I don't want to sell it like that as I don't want a brick through my window at 3am. After getting the work done and making it perfect and then selling it then I will know whether I have made the right decision. I have to live with myself but also have to do the right thing financially.
Guy.

[Rusty914s]

The only possible karma driven outcome. You start your car to put it on the flatbed and your engine grenades.

[recycled sixtie]

Originally Posted by strupgolf

Wow, if you think a 2001 base boxster is worth 16k, you must be in thinner air. They are all around the midwest from $6500 to 12,000 all day long. Call the guy back, apoliguse, take his $8500 and be done with it. I'd be pissed too if a seller renigged on the asking price. Bad way to sell a car.

Boxsters are worth more up here. That is why so many here import US cars because they are in great shape from dry states like California and Arizona. The price is higher here. Don't forget your US $ is worth more by 10% than our can $.
Good inexpensive Porsche repairs are hard to find here otherwise like a flash I would get Fastfred or Bell to fix my car if they were closer.
Guy

[Gogar]

I too am confused that you advertised the car for $8500 and then refused $8600.

I predict your buyer will not return.

[strupgolf]

The other side to this is: you get your $16k car (iyo) fixed at a cost of $3k, then you have a car worth $19k (iyo). Then you try to sell it and a buyer comes along, like the previous one, and offers you $8600. He says the car is a good one. He knows cars because he buys/sells and has a collection of them. All I'm saying is, dont get too far under in a very common car.

[HardDrive]

All I am going to say is this: Karma works.

[jyl]

Originally Posted by recycled sixtie

Either the cam actuator on bank 1 is either burned out or the adjuster is stuck. From my non technical mind then I consider that is minimum that is wrong with it. Estimated about $3000 in us but local indy shop wants to drop engine, ims, clutch etc. $6k. The latter is not going to happen.

The interesting thing is that with the CEL light out I could sell as is but likely cel light will come on again. I don't want to sell it like that as I don't want a brick through my window at 3am. After getting the work done and making it perfect and then selling it then I will know whether I have made the right decision. I have to live with myself but also have to do the right thing financially.
Guy.

You believe, based on a fair bit of knowledge/information, that the car needs $3-6K of work so, even though the CEL light is out, you don't want to sell it as is for what Boxsters normally go for, to avoid feeling guilty. Therefore you want to sell it for a lower price that reflects the needed work, after disclosing that something is wrong with the car, to someone who can take care of himself. You had exactly that chance with this guy, a chance you should have taken. You got excited and forgot your original plan.

[recycled sixtie]

Originally Posted by Gogar

I too am confused that you advertised the car for $8500 and then refused $8600.

I predict your buyer will not return.

Okay just to reiterate as I said above :the prospective buyer said "there is nothing wrong with this car". That changed it for me but I understand why the buyer was mad. This left a huge window for me to pursue it differently. However if he came back and said you broke your word then I would accept his offer of $8500 to avoid any further dispute. I think you are right he won't be back and I am not going to call him either. Time to fix this critter, sell it and move on. Thanks for all your opinions.
Buying, selling cars is not an easy process. Cheers, Guy.

[johnsjmc]

Re advertise it at best offer over $ (?) and sell it

[jyl]

You can sell it for $8500, maybe $9000.

Maybe it costs you $6000 to fix; you think it should cost $3000 in the US but your local shop says $6000 so unless you're going to DIY it, what is your alternative - drive it to a US shop for repair?

So $9000 + $6000 = $15000, suppose you sell it for $16000, that is a $1000 return on investing $6000 in the best case. In the worst case, by the time it is fixed no-one wants to buy a Boxster in winter so it sits until next summer and then it is one year older and then it turns out you've overestimated the value . . . now you get to invest $6000 for a loss.

I'd re-advertise it, maybe for $8900 now, hope for another buyer like the last guy, have him sign a release, and move on with life.