Lunatic Mother crosses the line (long)

[911SauCy]

I'm interested that you guys bring up NPD.

It was something that I "discovered" last night and have been reading a lot about since...trying to make some quick sense about this. Also, I'm trying to simply read and learn about it, not place my mother and her actions into it...

It's uncanny, **** it's scary really, how almost everything surrounding NPD aligns with what I've been experiencing.

[Norm K]

It's been twenty years since I read up on Narcissistic Personality Disorder and Histrionic Personality Disorder, both of which my ex-wife (well, still wife at the time) was diagnosed with.

Of everything I read (which was everything I could find at multiple libraries) the most poignant expert quote I found was also the most memorable. Said this doctor; "Give me an insane person over one with a personality disorder any day, as insanity is at least somewhat treatable".

Twenty years ago, experts in the field believed your mother and my ex-wife incapable of change. In the case of my ex anyway, they were correct.

[LakeCleElum]

Sac: You have my sympathy - Been there
Only pointers I can offer:
1) Counseling can help, but will revert when counseling ends
2) Will get worse as she ages
3) She will absolutely obcess over grand-kids, maintain control
4) Distance is your friend. Keep her at arms length.
G'luck

[notfarnow]

Originally Posted by Noney

The thing about NPD is that the vast majority of people who have it won't admit that there's anything wrong with them. It's part and parcel with the disease. So, as you say, talk therapy is useless because they don't think they should be in therapy in the first place. But what diagnosing NPD DOES do is give everyone else a framework for dealing with the crazy person. You learn what sets them off, how to maneuver around their puppeteering, and what NOT to say to fall into their traps. It has helped my family immensely, and if in fact his mom does have NPD then there might be some techniques he can use to deal with her.

So much truth to this.

You will likely NEVER get someone with NPD to see that they have a problem, let alone get help for it. However, knowing what you are dealing with will allow you to not only understand what you're up against, but also to set boundaries and help you create a "world" they can live in (or visit) without creating chaos.

The biggest challenge is recognizing that you will never, ever be able to satisfy them or fix what's broken with them. The energy you spend trying to do so is damaging to you and the people you love.

[Oh Haha]

I have no advice but I wish you the best in whatever happens.

My parents were not perfect but they were married for 47 years when my Dad passed away(11 years ago tomorrow).

[sugarwood]

Have you told your dad yet?

[LakeCleElum]

Keep in mind: Regarding the divorce, might have been a bad day and no intent to follow thu. Just a Drama thang. Regardless, warn Dad...

[flyenby]

You play the cards you are dealt in life.....I went through the same thing. You need to cut this person out of your life

[wdfifteen]

Sorry about your mom. I don't see her changing no matter what you do. I like what Marv wrote. That's the way I would handle it - but that's easy for me to say.

[tabs]

Originally Posted by 911SauCy

The list is exhaustive... but to answer a number of other questions first:

-She has always been like this, but it has become noticeably worse in time, especially the last couple years.
-By definition, she is exhibiting early signs of Dementia, but my dad doesn't want to be hear about it and her 2 responses to my having a serious sit down conversation about it were, 1: The middle finger 2: Her walking away amid responding with "bite-me, you're out of your mind"
-I don't want to cut her off but I feel more recent actions are leaving me with fewer options
-I will be supporting dad where/when he needs it

To Tabs...you asked...
-Mom has always been like this, before my time, her brothers recently helped me understand their strained relationship with her..as have other family members that I am now close with but was never allowed to interact with as a child.
-Mom's dad was the center of her universe, he died at 56 of lung cancer, she was 21. Her big brother was next to dad's godliness, he went away to Vietnam, came home with a bride...mom hated her bc she's a "whore" from day 1.
-Mom was always convinced it was her brother's "job" to care for her after her father died...small problem, she was already an adult. Perhaps she should have laid off the drugs and not associated with a bad crowd, could have helped her direct herself in a more positive direction.

Dad is a Saint, he was verbally and physically abused as a child. So, armed with a low self-esteem he meets this crazy party girl through a friend who wants to bang and "live-life". At this time dad was an engineer and making $$, mom was in love with the life style and turned into a stage-5 clinger. Dad didn't see this and thought he had the catch of a lifetime. That was the beginning of the end for him... He could have worked to control things as they developed in time but decided to not create turmoil, frankly, I think he was afraid to lose her. I lightly jest, but it';s true that my dad hasn't been allowed to speak for himself in 34 years. She is over bearing, loud, rude, and obnoxious...and my dad's personality is to take the path of least resistance. That has snowballed into her completely controlling him.

I love her, despite the crazy I wouldn't be me without either of them. That's why I care. The real issue is the extremity of her lunatic behavior has exponentially increased in the last couple years.

I'm like her in that I'm direct, pointed, motivated, uphold others to standards I hold myself to. Like dad in that I will sometimes take a back seat to my wife, who is strong/intelligent but very level headed and reflective. I will take a back seat when I think her ideas/practices are better than mine. We have complimentary relationship, where my parents come across as one person, mom.

FWIW, it's insulting that your question insinuates that I don't know who my parents are.

The questions were about how much clarity and definition you have about your self and your family. How and why did they get this way? It is about self examination. I want to hear the dynamic, the nutz and bolts and how they fit together. No insults here.

You did say the magic words, "I LOVE HER" and it must cause a lot of pain to have someone you love as deeply (as you would your Mom) and have her treat you so badly.

Your Dad has enabled her, by tolerating the BS. That sets a bad example for children to exemplify. Children think "If Dad does it that way, well thats the way it's done."

So what is the pain your Mom is running from? What was your Grand Ma Like? Was she religiously devout? The word that comes to mind is severe

[LWJ]

On a side-note, I just read about NPD. It explains a ex-coworker that I had recently. He was textbook NPD. Behaviors Included traveling to Pakistan to convert Muslims to Christianity.

On a more personal note, good luck with your Mom. I have a difficult Mom but not that difficult.

Take care of yourself and your family.

Larry

[recycled sixtie]

Well Saucy you are in a bit of a pickle. But it is not the end of the world. First off she is your mother. I would not close her off completely. Acknowledge what she is saying. Perhaps she is not aware of the effect she is having on the folks around her.

Reflecting on my mother who died at age 94 somebody said at the funeral that she died ten years ago. Perhaps there is some truth to that in that she had some mental issues in the last few years of her life. Spats of anger and paranoia etc.

Your mother raised you in the best way she knew how. I just think that people with these kind of issues find this behaviour as a way to survive. I would say be patient and understanding. Just make sure you are a good parent and get on with your life.

Cheers, Guy

[911SauCy]

Originally Posted by tabs

The questions were about how much clarity and definition you have about your self and your family. How and why did they get this way? It is about self examination. I want to hear the dynamic, the nutz and bolts and how they fit together. No insults here.

You did say the magic words, "I LOVE HER" and it must cause a lot of pain to have someone you love as deeply (as you would your Mom) and have her treat you so badly.

Your Dad has enabled her, by tolerating the BS. That sets a bad example for children to exemplify. Children think "If Dad does it that way, well thats the way it's done."

So what is the pain your Mom is running from? What was your Grand Ma Like? Was she religiously devout? The word that comes to mind is severe

Roger that.

The cause of what was once anger, then confusion, now disgust...as I learn more about what she seems to have, possibly NPD, it will likely use my knowledge to skillfully interact with her and minimize issues.

He has completely. Funny thing is I've always watched their interactions and became increasingly suspicious as to why he would let my mom treat him that way, or anyone for that matter.

Hit the nail on the head with this one, she's is still running from loosing her dad at a reasonably young age (21) but now the volume has been cranked as my grandmother, 98, was recently admitted to hospice. My Grandmother was stereotype guilt laden Catholic Italian...but not like this. She cherished family, friends and relationships where my mother is a wrecking ball in her personal and professional life. When you point out what she's doing to others she'll tell you the other individual, organization etc is stupid, but in a much more colorful manner.

Another very interesting thing is that her focus on religion has dramatically intensified. I wanted to climb up a wall when she told me God was making her say what she was saying Saturday at my house...I actually felt ill.

[911SauCy]

Originally Posted by LakeCleElum

Keep in mind: Regarding the divorce, might have been a bad day and no intent to follow thu. Just a Drama thang. Regardless, warn Dad...

Which is the exact reason why I shared this...that was like my "last straw" with her. As the day went on Saturday and I thought about our conversation, I became more and more aware that it was a pathetic stunt for attention.

[911SauCy]

Originally Posted by LWJ

On a side-note, I just read about NPD. It explains a ex-coworker that I had recently. He was textbook NPD. Behaviors Included traveling to Pakistan to convert Muslims to Christianity.
Larry

Funny, my mom has made 3 trips to Haiti with the Catholic church...in the last 2 years.

The trip was to solve the problems of the Hatian nation.

[EMJ]

Originally Posted by 911SauCy

Let’s begin with a description of the "maniacal mother":
She is the most manipulative person I've ever dealt with and as I have had time away to grow I see that she is not just manipulative but downright toxic. In the last couple years I figured out why my father’s family never really had a relationship with us, I was always assured that they were the problem, along with myriad of negative descriptors. Turns out this was never the case and now that I’m my own person, they had many unanswered questions to ask me, and I now have great unstrained connections with all of them. Another example was when we decided family counseling was what we needed, about 10 years back, and the psychologist (who was very thorough and matter of fact) narrowed the stem of almost all issues to my mother. Well, that woman was now every bad name under the sun a woman would use to insult another woman…as that smoke cleared she tried to blame all of her issues on my father(the guy is a saint)…who she then accused of being sexually attracted to the shrink. She now sees some clown who steals her $ and prescribes her 200mg of Zoloft…knowing darn well she drinks a bottle of wine/night…….

I could crash the PPOT server with instances of the like, but in the spirit of retaining interest and length, lets fast forward to this past weekend.
She tells me the only time she can see my little man is Friday afternoon and she misses him so much she needs to see him. (This is coming from someone who works part-time) Funny thing is that’s the one scheduled time each week his other grandma watches him, my mother was denied. So I agree to have her visit Saturday morning, she arrives solo…where’s Grandpa? She immediately starts in with lines about him not being motivated, he doesn’t care, and really she needed her time. (I find out later she lied to him about her destination so he wouldn’t come.) Shortly after she pulls out a book about God (every page has underlines and highlights) insisting I read it, this lunatic then begins to tell me and my wife that she and my dad are getting a divorce. After 34 years, she’s tired of being drained and she needs a happier life. So all of this nonsense talk continues and I couldn’t be happier as they’ve both been miserable for the last 3 years… Aside from the fact that I think its plain wrong that my dad, never mind my brother, wasn’t also there to have this discussion…truth began to emerge as the conversation carried on.

Psychopath mom hadn’t even told dad that she wanted a divorce, the poor guy was home having his coffee while she was trying to get me to take her “side” and “needed to rely on me for emotional support”. This C U Next Tuesday then starts in with defaming language about my dad, his character, and why he has pushed her to do this. My wife and I were in utter disbelief, I didn’t know how or what to say other than keep my mouth shut as I knew anything I said, she would probably use against me. That’s if she doesn’t decide to just fabricate lies, which is a regular occurrence as well.

After she left and the day carried I grew incredibly enraged for countless reasons and I decided to call her and demand she tell my dad immediately. She then informed me that “she had no control, and God told her what to say at my house”. When she went home she pulled my 19 year old brother aside and told him as well, but also told him to keep his mouth shut. I continually insisted she tell my dad or I was making a visit… She supposedly told him yesterday but there’s no actual officiating factor, paperwork, lawyers, etc… I’m pretty sure this is her biggest stunt for attention to date and I don’t need it in my life.
I want her out of my life completely. Suggestions otherwise? How to deal with her? Other life experience that might be admirable I can look to for help?

Did it ever occur to you that maybe she's just lonely? Psychopath? Lunatic? Manipulative? Maniacal? Nice. This is how you describe your mom? You don't come off very sympathetic. Seems you shock easy, too. Also seems you go against her for everybody and their mother, too. Would you even be here if she didn't feed you, bath you, wipe your ass for your first three years of life, and keep you safe? Sure, she might have her issues, but it seems you're no ray of sunshine yourself. From what you describe, it just doesn't sound so damn bad. She is your mom. You should have a little more respect.

[gacook]

Originally Posted by 911SauCy

Suggestions otherwise? How to deal with her? Other life experience that might be admirable I can look to for help?

I talk to my "mom" (stepmom, really--but she raised me) twice a year, typically; Christmas and her birthday. I'm happy with it this way, and recommend it if your relationship with her is truly this bad.

[jwasbury]

Originally Posted by EMJ

Would you even be here if she didn't feed you, bath you, wipe your ass for your first three years of life, and keep you safe?

^this is what a parent is supposed to do. Reminds me of the Chris Rock bit:

Originally Posted by EMJ

She is your mom. You should have a little more respect.

^I had a similar attitude, didn't believe it when my wife said her folks were nuts...then her father showed up at our house, tried to break in, yelling and screaming at me 2 inches from my face. After that, I realized the man was crazy. He has no capacity to admit his own role in things. Everything is always someone else's fault. Its sad...but the guy doesn't deserve respect for doing the bare minimum for his family all the while being an emotionally and physically abusive SOB.

[EMJ]

Originally Posted by jwasbury

^this is what a parent is supposed to do. Reminds me of the Chris Rock bit:




^I had a similar attitude, didn't believe it when my wife said her folks were nuts...then her father showed up at our house, tried to break in, yelling and screaming at me 2 inches from my face. After that, I realized the man was crazy. He has no capacity to admit his own role in things. Everything is always someone else's fault. Its sad...but the guy doesn't deserve respect for doing the bare minimum for his family all the while being an emotionally and physically abusive SOB.

I hear you, but I didn't see anything this severe in the OP's initial post - bunch of petty stuff.

[jwasbury]

Originally Posted by EMJ

I hear you, but I didn't see anything this severe in the OP's initial post - bunch of petty stuff.

Petty? I read the same initial post as you...I saw:

1) OP's family was alienated from the extended family - he's learned as an adult that it was his Mom's behavior behind this.
2) OP's family went to group counseling 10 years ago, when the therapist called out Mom, she went nuts, said the therapist was crazy, said it was Dad's fault, said dad was sexually attracted to therapist, etc. (never her fault)
3) Mom drinks a bottle of wine a night
4) Mom has absolutely no appropriate boundaries...she shares with her son (OP) that she's divorcing dad...can't "take it anymore" - needs a "happier life" (never her fault). Not the OP's business, this is between Mom and Dad.
5) Next day its god who made her say this, she has no control (never her fault).

OP said he could break the interwebs with this stuff. read between the lines this is the tip of the iceberg.