Lunatic Mother crosses the line (long)

[911SauCy]

Let’s begin with a description of the "maniacal mother":
She is the most manipulative person I've ever dealt with and as I have had time away to grow I see that she is not just manipulative but downright toxic. In the last couple years I figured out why my father’s family never really had a relationship with us, I was always assured that they were the problem, along with myriad of negative descriptors. Turns out this was never the case and now that I’m my own person, they had many unanswered questions to ask me, and I now have great unstrained connections with all of them. Another example was when we decided family counseling was what we needed, about 10 years back, and the psychologist (who was very thorough and matter of fact) narrowed the stem of almost all issues to my mother. Well, that woman was now every bad name under the sun a woman would use to insult another woman…as that smoke cleared she tried to blame all of her issues on my father(the guy is a saint)…who she then accused of being sexually attracted to the shrink. She now sees some clown who steals her $ and prescribes her 200mg of Zoloft…knowing darn well she drinks a bottle of wine/night…….

I could crash the PPOT server with instances of the like, but in the spirit of retaining interest and length, lets fast forward to this past weekend.
She tells me the only time she can see my little man is Friday afternoon and she misses him so much she needs to see him. (This is coming from someone who works part-time) Funny thing is that’s the one scheduled time each week his other grandma watches him, my mother was denied. So I agree to have her visit Saturday morning, she arrives solo…where’s Grandpa? She immediately starts in with lines about him not being motivated, he doesn’t care, and really she needed her time. (I find out later she lied to him about her destination so he wouldn’t come.) Shortly after she pulls out a book about God (every page has underlines and highlights) insisting I read it, this lunatic then begins to tell me and my wife that she and my dad are getting a divorce. After 34 years, she’s tired of being drained and she needs a happier life. So all of this nonsense talk continues and I couldn’t be happier as they’ve both been miserable for the last 3 years… Aside from the fact that I think its plain wrong that my dad, never mind my brother, wasn’t also there to have this discussion…truth began to emerge as the conversation carried on.

Psychopath mom hadn’t even told dad that she wanted a divorce, the poor guy was home having his coffee while she was trying to get me to take her “side” and “needed to rely on me for emotional support”. This C U Next Tuesday then starts in with defaming language about my dad, his character, and why he has pushed her to do this. My wife and I were in utter disbelief, I didn’t know how or what to say other than keep my mouth shut as I knew anything I said, she would probably use against me. That’s if she doesn’t decide to just fabricate lies, which is a regular occurrence as well.

After she left and the day carried I grew incredibly enraged for countless reasons and I decided to call her and demand she tell my dad immediately. She then informed me that “she had no control, and God told her what to say at my house”. When she went home she pulled my 19 year old brother aside and told him as well, but also told him to keep his mouth shut. I continually insisted she tell my dad or I was making a visit… She supposedly told him yesterday but there’s no actual officiating factor, paperwork, lawyers, etc… I’m pretty sure this is her biggest stunt for attention to date and I don’t need it in my life.
I want her out of my life completely. Suggestions otherwise? How to deal with her? Other life experience that might be admirable I can look to for help?

[GH85Carrera]

I can only say I am sorry for you crazy mom. You can not really do anything but support your dad and keep your distance from her. Why aggravate yourself.

It makes me feel so thankful that I had normal loving parents. They had their issues, but overall they were wonderful loving parents. They were married for over 54 years before my mother died. Did died two years ago and I miss them both.

Good luck with your family.

[jhynesrockmtn]

Sorry for this. Toxic people are in general to be screened out and avoided. Has she always been like this? Seems like it from your post. If more recent, possibly some mental illness or dementia creeping in? Maybe time for you and other family to pull Dad aside and have a chat although it is his relationship to deal with. But you could let him know you all support him. He may not be doing anything for fear of hurting his relationship with his kids. Mental illness and addiction is tough. My ex, whom I am still friends with, finally had to cut her Dad off completely after years of verbal abuse and manipulation, alcohol abuse, mental illness and just plain being an ass.

[tabs]

Zoooo..Why is Mom like this? Why does Dad "THE SAINT" put up with it? How do you feel about your Mom, do you love her, hate her etc? How are you like her, how are you like Dad? Let's see how clear you really are?

[jwasbury]

Originally Posted by 911SauCy

I want her out of my life completely. Suggestions otherwise? How to deal with her? Other life experience that might be admirable I can look to for help?

Quit her cold turkey...cut off completely. Its not easy, but it can be done.

My wife and I have had no contact with her toxic parents for over 10 years...best decision ever.

Your dad = saint? Sounds like he is the enabler in the relationship, which means he's also part of the problem. If you really want her out of your life, you probably have to cut out dad too, unless he decides to give mom the heave-ho too.

Sorry man.

[sc_rufctr]

Sounds awful but I suggest that you don't cut ties with her. I don't think anyone deserves that unless they've done something truly unforgivable.

What you could do is stick up for yourself and don't let her drag you into her affairs. Just focus on your own family and what's best for them.
If she wants to see her grand kids then she needs to make an effort. Don't play her games. Just get on with your life.
If she starts bad mouthing your dad stop her cold. Just stop her and make sure she knows it's not right for her to do that.
She may not understand at first but eventually she'll get it.

I was lucky with my parents although my mum can be demanding and intrusive at times but she means well.
After my dad passed she had a really hard time adjusting.

[911SauCy]

Originally Posted by tabs

Zoooo..Why is Mom like this? Why does Dad "THE SAINT" put up with it? How do you feel about your Mom, do you love her, hate her etc? How are you like her, how are you like Dad? Let's see how clear you really are?

The list is exhaustive... but to answer a number of other questions first:

-She has always been like this, but it has become noticeably worse in time, especially the last couple years.
-By definition, she is exhibiting early signs of Dementia, but my dad doesn't want to be hear about it and her 2 responses to my having a serious sit down conversation about it were, 1: The middle finger 2: Her walking away amid responding with "bite-me, you're out of your mind"
-I don't want to cut her off but I feel more recent actions are leaving me with fewer options
-I will be supporting dad where/when he needs it

To Tabs...you asked...
-Mom has always been like this, before my time, her brothers recently helped me understand their strained relationship with her..as have other family members that I am now close with but was never allowed to interact with as a child.
-Mom's dad was the center of her universe, he died at 56 of lung cancer, she was 21. Her big brother was next to dad's godliness, he went away to Vietnam, came home with a bride...mom hated her bc she's a "whore" from day 1.
-Mom was always convinced it was her brother's "job" to care for her after her father died...small problem, she was already an adult. Perhaps she should have laid off the drugs and not associated with a bad crowd, could have helped her direct herself in a more positive direction.

Dad is a Saint, he was verbally and physically abused as a child. So, armed with a low self-esteem he meets this crazy party girl through a friend who wants to bang and "live-life". At this time dad was an engineer and making $$, mom was in love with the life style and turned into a stage-5 clinger. Dad didn't see this and thought he had the catch of a lifetime. That was the beginning of the end for him... He could have worked to control things as they developed in time but decided to not create turmoil, frankly, I think he was afraid to lose her. I lightly jest, but it';s true that my dad hasn't been allowed to speak for himself in 34 years. She is over bearing, loud, rude, and obnoxious...and my dad's personality is to take the path of least resistance. That has snowballed into her completely controlling him.

I love her, despite the crazy I wouldn't be me without either of them. That's why I care. The real issue is the extremity of her lunatic behavior has exponentially increased in the last couple years.

I'm like her in that I'm direct, pointed, motivated, uphold others to standards I hold myself to. Like dad in that I will sometimes take a back seat to my wife, who is strong/intelligent but very level headed and reflective. I will take a back seat when I think her ideas/practices are better than mine. We have complimentary relationship, where my parents come across as one person, mom.

FWIW, it's insulting that your question insinuates that I don't know who my parents are.

[Hard-Deck]

She's a narcacist...a textbook one. I have no advice. She will never change.

[911SauCy]

Originally Posted by Snapper33

She's a narcacist...a textbook one. I have no advice. She will never change.

Right!?

True, it's only getting worse.

SWEET!

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Keep in mind that in a divorce nobody wins except the lawyers. I guarantee your dad will get screwed and screwed hard in any court proceeding by virtue of the simple fact that he's male.

[Noney]

Sorry to hear about your troubles.

After many long years of similar stories, I recently had to diagnose a family member with Narcissistic Personality Disorder. I had no idea such a thing existed, but once I discovered it and started researching, it was like I had solved a massive crime novel. All the pieces fell right into place. Her symptoms sound very similar to the ones my family were experiencing, so chances are you might have an NPD sufferer on your hands.

Narcissistic Personality Disorder

Good luck man, it ain't easy.....

[BlueSkyJaunte]

This isn't NPD. This is real crazy. "Talk therapy" isn't going to fix a damned thing.

My grandmother was the same way. It just got worse and worse over time, with my grandfather enabling her and (unwittingly) serving as something of a buffer between her and the rest of us. After my grandfather died she wound up in a 24-hour care facility, cursing and spitting at the nurses who she claimed were trying to "steal her money."

It's a miracle my father turned out even slightly normal.

[Noney]

The thing about NPD is that the vast majority of people who have it won't admit that there's anything wrong with them. It's part and parcel with the disease. So, as you say, talk therapy is useless because they don't think they should be in therapy in the first place. But what diagnosing NPD DOES do is give everyone else a framework for dealing with the crazy person. You learn what sets them off, how to maneuver around their puppeteering, and what NOT to say to fall into their traps. It has helped my family immensely, and if in fact his mom does have NPD then there might be some techniques he can use to deal with her.

[Evans, Marv]

I spent life until my late 30's wondering about my parents and wishing they were different. One day I told myself it didn't do any good to wonder and wish. I had to realize my parents were only people and had their strong points (few) and weak points (many), and I couldn't expect them to be different than they had always been and were. I minimized my interactions with them and didn't expect anything (especially emotionally) from them. That went a long way to eliminate my anxieties, & was something I should have thought of and internalized long before. This won't help your situation a lot, but it might help clear the way for you to decide on a course of action.

[ckelly78z]

She will only change when she hits bottom, rather like an alcoholic who finally admits that they have a drinking problem. It's going to be a rough road getting to that point, and she will probably alienate everyone close to her in the meantime, but you must distance yourself and your family from this toxic woman.

My daughter's boyfriend's mother is very much the same....she rules the roost and dictates who the family is allowed to talk to, and has decided that she doesn't like my strong willed daughter and has already tried to split them up and speaks bad about her always.

Try to get your dad alone for some serious one on one talking, and find out what his intentions are, and maybe give him some options. But be sure to tell him to get his financial affairs in order just in case mom decides to take everything and start slinging false accustations about your dad in order to make him sound like the bad guy.

Good Luck.

[vash]

Originally Posted by Evans, Marv

I spent life until my late 30's wondering about my parents and wishing they were different. One day I told myself it didn't do any good to wonder and wish. I had to realize my parents were only people and had their strong points (few) and weak points (many), and I couldn't expect them to be different than they had always been and were. That went a long way to remove my anxiety over the situation. I minimized my interactions with them and didn't expect anything (especially emotionally) from them. That went a long way to eliminate my anxieties, & was something I should have thought of and internalized long before. This won't help your situation a lot, but it might help clear the way for you to decide on a course of action.

this. i typed something out, 4-5 times and kept deleting it.

mentally thank your mom, maybe even verbally for bringing you into this world and move on with your life.

i love my mom. she still disappoints me sometimes, but i wont let it crush my spirit. i'm a product of me. can i be a better person..sure. hell yes..but i dont blame mom for any of it. it's still me at the wheel of my life. good or bad..i was driving.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

how did you turn out so well? seriosuly, from your posts and accomplishments therein, you're clearly a good guy doing a lot of things right.

Sorry about your mom.

[onewhippedpuppy]

You have to control the relationship. You determine when she visits and how long she stays. You stand up for yourself in conversations. You ask her to leave when she gets out of line. Even to the point of telling her that she's not welcome at your home, or to see your family. Ultimately you have to put your own sanity, and the sanity of your wife and kids, as the top priority.

My mom is the nicest person that you'll ever meet. She can also be pretty damn annoying. She worked for her father since she was a teen. She lived next door to her parents for most of my childhood. I probably saw my grandmother almost daily as a kid. So of course she expected to have the same life when I had kids. If I didn't say no she would be at EVERYTHING, and would probably have already moved closer to us. That would have a seriously negative impact on my family, because we enjoy having our own time as well. So I've had to set boundaries and say no a LOT. It can be hard doing that with your mother, especially when she lays on the guilt trip, but my family comes first.

[911SauCy]

Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa

how did you turn out so well? seriosuly, from your posts and accomplishments therein, you're clearly a good guy doing a lot of things right.

Sorry about your mom.

Honest to God Shaun... The more this becomes a plaguing issue within the family, the more reflective I've become. I wonder, often.

Perhaps I'm an even better narcissist

[Shaun @ Tru6]

you might be able to some dough at the sperm bank.