Wow, just saw something that made me want to run a bunch of bikers down

[Racerbvd]

I ride, and even got invited to the run the stop sign ride and even I would use my 2500 to plow the road of these A-holes..

[mreid]

You bicyclists be careful out there! This had to hurt!

http://youtu.be/b_EGqB5S9fU

[john70t]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Ummmm, that's sort of why the roads were built. People were tired of transportation via horse, bike, and walking. The roads don't exist for your exercise, they were not only built for vehicles but also paid for by vehicles.

Another way of looking at it:

The common roads that horses, bicyclists, and the general public once traveled were paved over and paid for by all on behalf of the new exclusive auto owners, who have developed a grandiose sense of entitlement which has nary subsided with the passage of time.

Nowadays, using these public roadways are literal death traps for those attempting to use alternate transportation means.
Vehicles get larger and larger, speeds increase, and drivers become more aggressive through this natural selection.
Some even voice an advocacy of purposely causing death to the weaker commuters.
Only the largest and strongest are safe in this jungle.
Return of the dinosaur.
Even smaller slower old vehicles are vulnerable to this trend. 914s and Beetles included.

[ckelly78z]

I see so many "LOOK OUT FOR MOTORCYCLES" stickers and yard placcards, it makes me sick. So many times, I look both ways at intersections and go ahead and pull out only to be overtaken by a bike or three doing 120 MPH in a 55 zone on a two lane road. I would like to get a bumper sticker that says " Look out for me, cuz I can't see you when your doing double the speed limit and only 1/4 the size of a car"

It's this kind of pushy behavior from many bikers that makes them universally hated.

[Baz]

Originally Posted by mreid

You bicyclists be careful out there! This had to hurt!

http://youtu.be/b_EGqB5S9fU

[Racerbvd]

Originally Posted by ckelly78z

I see so many "LOOK OUT FOR MOTORCYCLES" stickers and yard placcards, it makes me sick. So many times, I look both ways at intersections and go ahead and pull out only to be overtaken by a bike or three doing 120 MPH in a 55 zone on a two lane road. I would like to get a bumper sticker that says " Look out for me, cuz I can't see you when your doing double the speed limit and only 1/4 the size of a car"

It's this kind of pushy behavior from many bikers that makes them universally hated.

Yep, I was about to pass on a local bridge, checked mirrors, ect and then as I was about to change, a bike revved the hell out of the engine, seems while I was checking, they shot over 3 lanes to the spot I was moving too. That idiot was very lucky that I pay attention when driving

[Tobra]

Critical Mass, what a bunch of idiots.

Their events have a reasonably expected effect that is contrary to their stated purpose, almost without fail.


One question for John, or any of the others that seem to think this is "okay." Will this make people more or less sympathetic to their cause?

Oh, and if you think the ass hattery by the bike messengers and other cyclists had much to do with improved infrastructure for cycling had anything to do with that, I have a very nice orange bridge that you may be interested in purchasing.


Civil disobedience, ha. What is civil about it?

[tevake]

I've seen big bunches of motorcycles doing this too.
I don't care what vehicle is used there is no reason to think the interests of your group trumps the rights of other users of the road, or the traffic laws.

Funny what group think can do. And I include car drivers in that, many have come to think that roads are for them alone. And any one else use ing the roads are incroaching on their private domain. What ever happened to sharing, and consideration?
There is real truth in John70t's earlier post.

Cheers Richard

[intakexhaust]

Funny observation today. No more like WTF are wrong with people???

I'm out getting my bike ride in, on a designated bike route with lanes PLUS a beautiful paved trail - separated from the roadway. I mean really nice, safe, happy trails ya know?!

So, my first observation was a good number of cyclist RIDING the roadway. Huh? I soon find a roadside tent set up for an organized ride. OK, then I figured this was the fault of the organizer but why route the riders on the road when there's a perfect trail with nobody on it but me???

Second one is retarded. I'm wearing a cereal bowl on my noggin' while cycling on this particular bikey trail, but then I glance 20 yards over at the road parallel to the trail ,see a group of 40 to 50 motorcyclist blazing by sans helmet. We'll maybe a total of three (passengers) had them on. Guessing 80 percent of the bikes were Harley.

From many years ago, I have vivid memories of seeing one decapitated and the other mutilated heads of a couple that wrecked. No helmets but probably wouldn't have mattered.

[mattdavis11]

They're suicidal in Austin. They will take up lanes of traffic, ride 3-4 wide, sometimes on roads with posted speed limits of 65mph!

Our tax dollars paid for bike lanes, built a veloway, but they still seem entitled to use the main lanes.

It's not surprising to hear on the morning news that a few got mowed down. An incident was in the news cast again today.

[flipper35]

Originally Posted by jyl

It is a variant of civil disobedience.

Protest marches, demonstrations, sit-ins also break laws and briefly inconvenience people. But usually onlookers don't say they want to ram their cars into a protest march, or crush demonstrators with their SUVs.

The reason why some onlookers get so bent out of shape about a critical mass ride is because some drivers feel entitled to use the roads without having to slow or wait for cyclists (or pedestrians), and some people get prone to anger when their driving entitlement is threatened (aka road rage). Critical mass rides push those buttons, which is kind of the point, many of the participants would say.

I don't go on those critical mass rides myself, because we don't have them in Portland. I think we used to, but bikes became accepted enough by drivers that the perceived need for this sort of in your face demonstration kind of went away. We've had a couple of demonstration/protest rides this past summer, one where a cyclist had his leg torn off by a truck turning left in front of him (left cross), and another where a cyclist was killed by the same maneuver. But it's not a regular thing in Portland anymore.

I remember there used to be these critical mass rides a lot in San Francisco, back in the 80/90s. Back then the city was very hostile to cyclists, drivers and city officials alike, and the cyclists fought back with pretty aggressive riding (especially the bike messengers). Now you see bike lanes, commuting cyclists, bike share, etc all over downtown SF, and everything seems quite peaceful.

My guess is that a city will see regular critical mass type protest rides at a certain stage in the development of biking there - when there are a lot of cyclists, but the city, roads, and drivers are still quite hostile to bikes. Eventually everyone moves past that stage.

My guess is that the cyclists will get more respect when they follow the law and have common courtesy. We have some local riders and everyone gives them plenty of room when passing but there is a group from the quad cities that are complete turd baskets and block traffic, ignore traffic signs and generally behave like hairy dildos with ears.

[oldE]

If there had been one or two motorcyclists they would have stopped for the lights.
A funny thing seems to happen to individuals within a large group. There seems to be a lessened sense of personal responsibility.
With the bikers streaming through traffic lights you were witnessing a traffic riot. We deplore those who break shop windows and loot when "everyone else is doing it" because not everyone else was engaged. Neither you nor I indulged in the destruction and the theft.
Likewise we stop for traffic lights. We understand that traffic flows better and we get to our destinations if everyone adheres to a set of rules. We are upset because these people took refuge in the mob anonymity to ignore the rules.
If there had been a jet blast barrier mounted in the street, I suspect most of us would have delighted in pushing the button to activate it.

Best
Les

[Laneco]

I always find it an interesting discussion when someone insists that cyclists have no right to the road because they are not paying for the road...

Roads are built and repaired with taxes. The average avid cyclist in the US makes $60,000 plus and is likely to own both a home and a car. Taxes on the home pay for some street improvements, registration and fuel taxes for the car pay for roads as well. The home taxes and the registration are the same whether the car is driven or not.

Therefore, an avid cyclist who is doing zero damage to a road is effectively subsidizing those who are doing the damage. It's kind of like insurance on a group plan. We all pay into it and those who use it less frequently are basically helping to pay for those who use it more frequently.

Something to think about when you are stuck in traffic sitting in a two ton twenty plus foot long SUV raging at a zero emissions vehicle that can be carried in one hand, parked inside a decent sized office cubicle, and provide a workout far more interesting than any gym.

angela

[tabs]

I thought the Tour De France was held in France?

[Jeff Higgins]

We've covered that argument here before, Angela.

Yes, cyclists pay taxes on the motor vehicles they own, and their homes, etc. Well, so do tennis players, equestrians, and everyone else. We all have our leisure time pursuits. That does not give the the "right", however, to stretch a tennis net across the road and mark off a tennis court. It does not give us the right to ride our horses on public motorways.

These examples are, of course, patently absurd. These activities are completely incompatible with the motorized use of our motor ways. And therein lies the rub - compatibility.

Bicycles give the illusion of compatibility because they are on wheels. Under some circumstances, they can even more or less keep up. But it is just that - an illusion. The massive differences in speed, mass, ability to be seen by others, and many other factors render the bicycle incompatible with motor vehicle traffic. The two just do not mix well at all.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

..... The massive differences in speed, mass, ability to be seen by others, and many other factors render the bicycle incompatible with motor vehicle traffic. The two just do not mix well at all.

I've been meaning to start a thread on this very topic....country roads and bicycles don't mix either. It's just a matter of time....I see 'em on twisty, blind curve, hilly roads all the time where the cars are going 50+, rounds a curve, etc. and bam, there's a cyclist (or dozen) at 5 mph, with really no where to go. I know these roads like the back of my hand and am VERY careful. The cyclists have just appeared in recent years (perfect training routes), but it's just a matter of time before one or more get wiped out....there is no place for a 5 mph bicycle with cars going 10x that speed approaching from both directions on narrow country roads. What's the answer cyclists?

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

We've covered that argument here before, Angela.

Yes, cyclists pay taxes on the motor vehicles they own, and their homes, etc. Well, so do tennis players, equestrians, and everyone else. We all have our leisure time pursuits. That does not give the the "right", however, to stretch a tennis net across the road and mark off a tennis court. It does not give us the right to ride our horses on public motorways.

These examples are, of course, patently absurd. These activities are completely incompatible with the motorized use of our motor ways. And therein lies the rub - compatibility.

Bicycles give the illusion of compatibility because they are on wheels. Under some circumstances, they can even more or less keep up. But it is just that - an illusion. The massive differences in speed, mass, ability to be seen by others, and many other factors render the bicycle incompatible with motor vehicle traffic. The two just do not mix well at all.

You are entitled to have your own opinion.

however, under the law

cyclists have the same rights as any other user of public highways. They generally make an effort to not impede motorized traffic but they do have the right to use all of the road when it is necessary. It is often necessary due to narrow or non existent shoulders, deteriorated shoulders, shoulders blocked by debris, trash, cars, garbage cans etc. or when making a left hand turn.

There are as***s on bikes and in cars and on foot, that is natural and expected of the human race but you have to remember there is a major difference between cyclists and motorists, motorists have a lethal weapon in their hands and should keep that in mind at all times. Some drivers are totally unaware of anything outside their vehicles, others are actively malicious. As are some bicyclists. But we don't accept armed people using their guns carelessly or to intimidate nor should we accept using a car for the same purpose.

Cyclists need to respect motorists by trying to keep right but that is not always possible, motorists need to keep in mind the lethal aspect of their rides and give cyclists some respect in return, respect can mean some room or even a bit of slowing that will mean nothing to the driver except the temporary bruising to his/her ego at big forced to an action that wasn't anticipated.

I remember a line from the NYS manual for new drivers that I studied when I was 15, tp paraphrase
be prepared for unexpected moves by bicyclists, they see and deal and react w/ issues that are unnoticeable to those in cars.

a deteriorated shoulder will never be noticed in a car it can cause a crash or flat on a bicycle, a pot hole that cause an uncomfortable jolt in a car can be devastating to a bicyclist..

Just be respectful of all other out there and there will be way fewer issues,

[mikehinton]

The only problem with that argument is that a large portion of taxes used to fund road maintenance comes from fuel taxes, which are not being paid by cyclists, nor by Tesla drivers.

I think the real issue here has to do with compliance with road laws. Being a scofflaw will not generate sympathy for your position, regardless of what vehicle you choose.

[gtc]

Jesus Christ, Bill. What the hell is wrong with you? Coming in here, acting all reasonable and ****... you'd better MACHO UP right quick, or take that crap elsewhere.

[Porsche-poor]

I had an interesting one last Saturday. I pulled up to a red light and stopped, looked right then left and saw a guy standing at the cross walk with a do not walk flashing. looked back right and started to roll and there was a guy on a bike. He started to cuss me out and attempted to read me the riot act. I pointed out that if I called the police it would not be me cited.

1. No helmet as required by the city.
2. Riding on the sidewalk.
3. Going against traffic.
4. Riding thru a cross walk and a cross walk that was lit do not cross.

The jerk was in a big hurry to pedal off when I reached for my phone.