Wow, just saw something that made me want to run a bunch of bikers down

[onewhippedpuppy]

Hey Bill, I didn't see anything in your post about the right to disobey traffic laws at will. If you want equality you got it, but that cuts both ways. Most roads also have minimum speed limits too, for the sake of that equality argument.

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Hey Bill, I didn't see anything in your post about the right to disobey traffic laws at will. If you want equality you got it, but that cuts both ways. Most roads also have minimum speed limits too, for the sake of that equality argument.

You've never seen a motorist do the same??

Do you propose the death penalty for either??

some roads have minimums and bicyclists aren't allowed on them, , bicycles aren't allowed on sidewalks either some places, but that is beside the point and has no bearing on the issue at hand. Which seems to me to be the over inflated egos of some posters here that see bicyclists as some sort of secondary sub human species that have fewer rights and never behave responsibly. They seem outraged that their free and rapid progress is slowed by a few seconds or that perhaps they should give the right of way to a (gasp) unmotorized pip squeek in (gasp again at the outrage, oh the horror) spandex that has the nerve to not cower and kowtow off the pavement until their betters have passed. It reminds me of the expectations of royalty in days of olde

and I do believe that I mentioned that respect is a 2 way street. I see far more misbehaving motorists than bicyclists, the law of probability predicts that because there are more motorists, that the consequences of that misbehavior can be horrendous and the fact that there is no legal basis for it, doesn't stop it from occurring on a regular basis.

[Heel n Toe]

1. The fact that many/most cyclists have encountered d-bag motorists isn't an excuse for cyclists to act like d-bags... whether it's a CM or just a random group riding 2 or 3 abreast in a lane obstructing traffic.
2. Saying "slowed by a few seconds" is a gross understatement and doesn't serve your cause well. See #1.
3. Saying that you "see far more misbehaving motorists than bicyclists" is similarly irrelevant. See #1 again.
4. Your entire argumentative structure is just like a spoiled teenage bimbo trying to argue why she shouldn't be grounded after some bad behavior.
5. "Death penalty?" Really? Straw man.

I've always been respectful of cyclists... I used to ride everywhere while in college before I had a car and never had a problem or caused a problem, but I knew to be courteous (as well as careful) around "cagers."

[strupgolf]

I'd say, plow the first few down when going through the the light legally, then sit back and watch the others obey the light. It just takes one.

[herr_oberst]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

The two just do not mix well at all.

That's your opinion.

Of course, in your world, a cager who is just unlucky enough to be in the lane next to you doesn't mix well at all when you're riding your XR with the straight pipes, and you happen to be feeling froggy.


If you hate congestion, you should love cyclists.

[intakexhaust]

I suppose some of you kiddies would push over some old person in a walker, as surely they take up too much of your time and space.

I've been in WAY WORSE car traffic jams due to some slow drivers, little rain storm, whatever vs. any ordeal with cyclist on a roadway. As mentioned earlier, the critical mass is not my thing but so what? If anything, what is it, a whole 5 minutes of your time at an intersection? Big whippie doo. And what about the railroads now taking excess of 15 minutes at crossings? Rarely is that enforced or rr's fines.

Lastly, I'm always seeing moron car drivers NOT yielding to emergency vehicles. Now that's what I consider troubling.

[Heel n Toe]

Originally Posted by intakexhaust

I suppose some of you kiddies would push over some old person in a walker, as surely they take up too much of your time and space.

I've been in WAY WORSE car traffic jams due to some slow drivers, little rain storm, whatever vs. any ordeal with cyclist on a roadway. As mentioned earlier, the critical mass is not my thing but so what? If anything, what is it, a whole 5 minutes of your time at an intersection? Big whippie doo. And what about the railroads now taking excess of 15 minutes at crossings? Rarely is that enforced or rr's fines.

Lastly, I'm always seeing moron car drivers NOT yielding to emergency vehicles. Now that's what I consider troubling.

See #4 in my post above. Congratulations, you and Bill are batting a thousand.

[intakexhaust]

^ha Johny, no worries here nor do I do endorse or care about the CM cyclist mentality. I hold my own quite well, thank you.

You see, I've had a malicious attempt on my life by some psycho in a car. Simply riding my bike in a wide clear bike lane, designated route. A full intentional stalking and run down by this whacko. The law can't be there like Superman and protect one so its just you against mad driver. Oh yes, and I have learned my lesson. If ever this happens again and given the chance I will eliminate that deranged. Cheer's!

[Laneco]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

We've covered that argument here before, Angela.

Yes, cyclists pay taxes on the motor vehicles they own, and their homes, etc. Well, so do tennis players, equestrians, and everyone else. We all have our leisure time pursuits. That does not give the the "right", however, to stretch a tennis net across the road and mark off a tennis court. It does not give us the right to ride our horses on public motorways.

Actually Jeff, you CAN ride your horse on the public motorway in Oregon... There are incorporated townships that may prohibit that or prohibit it on specific roads, but in general it IS legal to ride your horse on the road in Oregon as well as most other western states.

As a motorist, if you come upon a rider who is having difficulty controlling their horse (horse spooked, etc) then the motorist must stop their vehicle and shut off their engine!! ORS 811.510.

Egads... Pedestrians, bicycles and even HORSES are allowed on the public road! What's next? Farm equipment? Oh wait...yeah that's legal too. Share the road means share with EVERYONE.
angela

[herr_oberst]

There's a bicycle counter on the busiest bridge in Portland, the Hawthorne:

The total number of bike trips from Jan 1 2014 to Jan 1 2015 was 1,713,464 trips.

Almost 1 and 3/4 million bike trips, and this is just one bridge; There's plenty of daily bike traffic on the Sellwood, the Morrison, the Burnside, the Steel, The Broadway and the St Johns bridges, too.

This weekend, a new bridge will open, the Tillicum, (named for a word in the Chinook Jargon of the Pacific Northwest that means people, family, tribe, and relatives). This bridge is notable for the fact that cars will not be allowed; this is light rail, bicycle and pedestrian only.

The evolution continues; you can embrace it or gnash your teeth in angst and anger, but progress marches on.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by Laneco

Actually Jeff, you CAN ride your horse on the public motorway in Oregon... There are incorporated townships that may prohibit that or prohibit it on specific roads, but in general it IS legal to ride your horse on the road in Oregon as well as most other western states.

As a motorist, if you come upon a rider who is having difficulty controlling their horse (horse spooked, etc) then the motorist must stop their vehicle and shut off their engine!! ORS 811.510.

Egads... Pedestrians, bicycles and even HORSES are allowed on the public road! What's next? Farm equipment? Oh wait...yeah that's legal too. Share the road means share with EVERYONE.
angela

You didn't address the tennis players.

The big issue is that cyclists are recreating, or, essentially, playing in the street. I have no problem at all with bicycle commuters (I've actually commuted on a bicycle many, many times over the years) and I do appreciate the reduction in traffic, if all but unnoticeable these days (here in the Seattle area).

Like Bill says, it all boils down to respect. For the law, for one another. My only problem is the all too many that are out on our back roads every day (who, incidentally, drove their cars out there, carrying their toys on a bike rack) who show no respect whatsoever and simply will not yield to faster traffic approaching from behind. These ass hats can be far more than the momentary inconvenience Bill mentions; it is far too common to get stuck behind them for sometimes miles at a time, where the layout of the roadway would make it unsafe to cross the center line to pass them. Defiant as hell, these U.S. Postal middle aged wannabes flip you off at even the most polite little toot of the horn, and continue to ride three or four abreast as they grind up a hill at five miles per hour. Those guys are the problem, not the urban commuters. And, in the end, they are simply "playing in the street".

Originally Posted by herr_oberst

That's your opinion.

Of course, in your world, a cager who is just unlucky enough to be in the lane next to you doesn't mix well at all when you're riding your XR with the straight pipes, and you happen to be feeling froggy.

As a cyclist, you should be equally concerned with motorists yammering away on their cell phones. Distracted motorists are an even bigger threat to cyclists than they are to motorcyclists. Unless, of course, you are one of those ass holes who has the right to ride his bicycle in and impede traffic, and also has the right to yammer on his cell while driving in that traffic. If you are indeed one of those ass holes with whom it's all about you all the time, I can see why you get off whining about motorists when you are cycling, yet have no trouble with endangering cyclists when you are motoring. Maybe that's why you thought having a little juvenile fun with a cell phone yammering putz was so offensive - it could have been you. All you all the time - you rock.

Originally Posted by herr_oberst

If you hate congestion, you should love cyclists.

See my reply to Angela. I don't mind cyclists in the city. Not enough cycle to have any appreciable affect upon our traffic, so that really is a straw man, but I appreciate the thought. Just don't get all high and mighty thinking you actually make a difference. You don't.

[Sycolist]

Originally Posted by strupgolf

I'd say, plow the first few down when going through the the light legally, then sit back and watch the others obey the light. It just takes one.

As an avid cyclist your comment shows your lack of intelligence. Hopefully you were just trying to be funny. Let's pretend... Tommorrow you accidently hit a cyclist with your car. You say your sorry but....your post becomes discoverable by the family of the cyclist. You go to court and the jury finds you guilty of intentional negligence and manslaughter. Jail time... Soap on a rope??

If you were trying to be funny you failed. Think twice.

[herr_oberst]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

Unless, of course, you are one of those ass holes who has the right to ride his bicycle in and impede traffic, and also has the right to yammer on his cell while driving in that traffic. If you are indeed one of those ass holes with whom it's all about you all the time, I can see why you get off whining about motorists when you are cycling, yet have no trouble with endangering cyclists when you are motoring. Maybe that's why you thought having a little juvenile fun with a cell phone yammering putz was so offensive - it could have been you. All you all the time - you rock.

You've never seen me ride on my commute or during my recreational rides, yet you've decided that this is who I am? You can just go ahead and kiss my ass.

(But I want to thank you for opening your roads again to 12000 riders for STP again this year. I had a great time! Can't wait for next year!)

[stuartj]

Originally Posted by KC911

I've been meaning to start a thread on this very topic....country roads and bicycles don't mix either. It's just a matter of time....I see 'em on twisty, blind curve, hilly roads all the time where the cars are going 50+, rounds a curve, etc. and bam, there's a cyclist (or dozen) at 5 mph, with really no where to go. I know these roads like the back of my hand and am VERY careful. The cyclists have just appeared in recent years (perfect training routes), but it's just a matter of time before one or more get wiped out....there is no place for a 5 mph bicycle with cars going 10x that speed approaching from both directions on narrow country roads. What's the answer cyclists?

Yes, this is a problem. On one hand, quiet country roads are perfect places for road riding because they are quiet country roads, on the other, they are generally derestricted and cars at 60mph and bikes on narrow twisty roads are a bad mix.

I ride 150 miles a week. But I also drive, and I get really annoyed when I see cyclists mixing it up on busy commuter roads and causing problems- mostly for themselves, because they will lose any encounter with a car. Let alone a bus or a truck.

Its funny how your perspective changes. I do tarmac rally, and I remember recce'ing a for a rally once on roads that were also soon to be used for a major TdF road cycle event. We were behaving like asshat motorists, driving very er, briskly, on pace notes and there were goddam bikes every where.

Ive been hit by cars several times, as recently as few weeks ago. I was totally in the right, but blaming the victim, I should have anticipated the dickhead and avoided the situation. For that reason, I am always prepared to back my judgement and break road rules when on my bike in the interests of both my safety and other traffic. By that- for example, I will ride through a red turn signal if its safe to do so. Better that than standing out in the middle of the road in the traffic waiting for an arrow (that wont come because a cycle wont set of the light signals) being a traffic hazard.

Common sense should apply. This 'critical mass' thing is not helpful. Cyclists should apply common sense about where and when they use roads, if only for their own sake. But, as a young chap found out a few weeks back, if you think its funny to close pass at high speed, be very careful. Cyclists take that **** very personally and they might ride you down over the next few miles and drag you out of your car at a red light to have a friendly chat.

[john70t]

The downtown restaurant scene around here is wonderful especially on these warm pleasant summer nights. The streets are lined with patio dining and the bustle of late night shoppers, couples strolling, and those waiting in lines outside the clubs and theatres. It's almost the European experience.

It would be nicer if they could shut down Main St. just a few nights a week.
No cars or honking or screeching brakes or fumes. Only people walking.
What a difference that would be.
Smell the roses. Right here. Not somewhere else.

[lendaddy]

I am always impressed with the "it's perfectly legal" argument from cyclists. If self absorbed lawyers took to bonfires instead of neon bodysuits for attracting attention we'd still be burning witches at the stake.

[Racerbvd]

I've only been riding since the 80s, and am aware of my surroundings, whether I'm in one of my "cages" or one of my bikes, while for the most part, I have been luck, never being hit by a car, but I have had beer bottles & other things thrown at me (still have the scars) and I find some of the actions (like running the stop signs & lights, intentionally blocking traffic) some groups take, despicable and make the rest of us look bad. The tax we pay for the gas in our cars are what fund the roads, not our bicycles, just thought I would throw that out. I guess also being a cyclist, I pay extra attention when I see a group out on a ride, while I'm driving, and give a friendly wave while also giving them room when I go by. See, it really isn't hard to be both, a good cyclist and a good motorist.
On a sadder note, a few years back, some idiot through and apple at a local rider, while doing about 60 MPH, needless to say, it it the rider on the head, knocking him out and it was hours later before he was found, still out, and ended up in the hospital. This is the type of BS we have to watch out for, and these guys who like to make statements, are hurting the rest of us.

[stuartj]

[QUOTE=Racerbvd;8738358 See, it really isn't hard to be both, a good cyclist and a good motorist. [/QUOTE]

Exactly. Well said.

In much the same way as one might be far more aware of, more connected to the driving process when in the 911 (or on the Ducati) than when in the family luxo bus, cyclists are generally very aware of their surroundings, the road, the conditions. So when someone gets too close in their 2 ton SUV and puts me in danger it gets personal.

For those getting all het up- please compare the numbers of people killed and hurt by cyclists vs same by motorists. I know where I live there is a exactly one case of a pedestrian being hit and killed by cyclist on record.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by herr_oberst

You've never seen me ride on my commute or during my recreational rides, yet you've decided that this is who I am? You can just go ahead and kiss my ass.

Whoa, settle down, anonymous little internet tough guy. You completely missed the "if" that was so much a part of my answer. Geez - it's almost as if I might have struck a nerve. So, do you at least shave it, like all the other Tour wannabes?

Originally Posted by herr_oberst

(But I want to thank you for opening your roads again to 12000 riders for STP again this year. I had a great time! Can't wait for next year!)

Yes, it is a great ride. Been at least 20 years since I did it. I see they now give out "one day rider" tee shirts, so those guys can strut about and lord it over the lesser two day plebians. It's all about ego in this game anymore, I guess. We used to do it one day because we considered ourselves pussies - we couldn't even look at a bike seat on the second day.

[URY914]

Don't tell anyone in DC that cyclists don't pay for the roads they use or you'll be looking at a bicycle tax. You buy a bike you get hit with a 25% tax. Bike parts= new tax. Those funny shoes and shorts with the padded butt= new tax.

I'm telling you, keep quite.