Sewer line problem, replacement?

[jyl]

My neighbor and I have, it appears, a party sewer line. I'm told the main line is on his property and I'm on the branch line. This neighborhood was developed 100 years ago.

When I bought my house 10 years ago, a sewerscope company did the inspection and told me that my sewer line was not in great shape and might need to be replaced in the next several years. When my neighbor bought his house two years ago, his inspection company told him the same thing. Neither of us recall hearing about the party sewer line when we moved in, although it's possible we were told and don't remember. However, my former neighbor (predecessor of the current neighbor) later told me that our houses shared his sewer connection.

My neighbor has been having backup problems. I have never had any. Recently he was backed up so badly that RotoRooter was at his house until near midnight.

Today a RotoRooter supervisor visited him and said his sewer line is near failure, recommended a trenchless sewer line replacement, and also said that current code won't permit a party line, so I will be disconnected from the sewer when his line is replaced. RotoRooter's estimate for my neighbor is $6000. The supervisor's guesstimate for me is $20,000, because I'd need a whole new connection to the street.

Any thoughts?

My first question is why I have no sewage problems while my neighbor has serious ones.

My second question is whether we should get a sewerscope company, not affiliated with RotoRooter, to inspect both systems and give us another opinion. I imagine this is a no-brainer?

My third question is if it makes sense that we can't continue being on the party sewer, aiming that is indeed the case.

My fourth question is what do you all know about installing a new sewer connection. How is it done? The house grade is elevated about 8 feet above the street grade. The main stack in my basement is about 80 feet from the curb, with about 25 feet of basement slab between stack and the foundation wall closest to the street. There are some huge mature trees between stack and street. There is really no way to get heavy equipment in there to dig a trench, and I'm worried the trees will get killed in the process.

[ltusler]

I think you should talk to your city before going any further. This most likely has been addressed before.

[john70t]

Get it scoped.
Absolutely. Now. A hundred bucks or two is nothing.
Get more than one opinion.

It probably doesn't matter what was "said". Or not.
The Title documents are the official legal conveyances of property with all known definitions and deficiencies.
There may be insurance to cover this (known) defect.

Current code may be for new construction only.
The existing y-pipe sewer configuration may be grandfathered.
Local conditions apply.

Personally, I would look to getting a separate street-hookup if a bunch of front yard mess is guaranteed though.
That may be expensive but would add value.

[ossiblue]

Without knowing all the details, my guess would be that the blockage in your neighbor's line is upstream of where you branch into the main line--that's why he has a problem and you don't.

Having another company scope both systems will, probably confirm his is bad, yours is failing, and the main is failing as well. After all, it's a 100 year old system.

Your third question is very important, and you need an answer from the city, not the repair company. It is common for repairs to require code upgrades but this may or may not be one of those times especially if your branch and the main to the sewer are still working.

Your fourth question will likely depend on where, on your property, your line branches over to your neighbor. The difficulty in laying a new line is probably why a 20k estimate was given.

Whatever you do, get a second or third estimate for a new sewer connection.

[jyl]

Skimmed the city website. Non-conforming party sewers must be "abandoned" by the homeowner if the city says there is a public sewer line available, which there is. No mention of grandfathering, that's something I'll look into.

Found a two-man scoping company that only does that - no plumbing, no sewer repair/install,excavation. Seems that might avoid a conflict of interest/upsell. Also found a couple others who do drain cleaning, but not anything more.

Talked to my neighbor, we're going to get the whole system scoped and get some opinions about whether sewer replacement is needed.

It is irritating (for me) that I'm not having any issues but may have to spend a bunch of money because his nanny was flushing baby wipes down the toilet (strictly against his instructions to her). Okay, I realize it isn't as simple as that. Just venting.

[look 171]

Can they run a sleeve in there to prolong the life of your main sewer? They last a long time if done properly and only if possible. This was there's no separate sewer line, but that depends on your city code. I can only think that the roots are busting through your clay or cast iron pipes.

Reason for your neighbor's back up is because the clog is up stream from where your pipe enters the main. Getting a camera in there is always my recommendation, but for a 100 year old house with big trees, you got some issues with roots or perhaps collapsed pipes.

I hate those roto-rooter guys. From my experience, the only thing they are good at is unclogging siht and they know siht only flows downhill, and that they rape ya when it comes to paying for service outside of drain unclogging service, that's it. Get a local plumber and have him bid it out and see what he thinks. With a camera, you know exactly what's going on and how to proceed. Make sure they can and are insured and qualify to dig out the street. That's where the big bucks is spend.

[cstreit]

A second opinion is definitely warranted given the cost. Hell, kick in $2000 bucks to his bill to keep your $20k one away.

[vash]

definately have it scoped. they can tell you so much good info before you commit one way or the other.

like how deep that thing is. IMHO, that is the cost. deep trenches. $$.

i paid $250 to have a camera run down the sewer. it showed me my line was bad in the shallow parts. where it dove down, deep where CALosha would take notice, it was cherry. i felt good enough to release the plumber kraken. it was done for $5000 and you cant believe the peace of mind the day after. it was profound.

good luck!!

[dan88911]

I replaced the sewer lateral (the line from clean out in the front garden area to the front property line just at the side walk per city code at that point city required another clean out about 20 feet) trenchless is the way to go if it works for you.

Just a thought depending where your line ties in with the neighbor maybe dig down there and trenchless to your house with a cleanout at that point and then dig trench to the street sewer. Assuming cost/code distance etc. allows it.

[john70t]

Probably not needed, but check valves are available for a shared system:
Determining if a Waste Backwater Valve is needed

[GWN7]

The reason he gets the worst of the backup is simple. His sewer connection is lower than yours. Water flows to the lowest point. How do I know this? My neibours and I shared a sewer connection. His was added to my sewer line and his basement was lower than mine so when his wife and daughter would flush their sanitary products it would back up into his first.

$20K sounds excessive to run a new line to your house.

[Matt Smith]

JYL- I can't answer any specific problems being many thousand miles from the issue. But what I can say, also owning a house with a 105 year old sewerage system is that it feels really, really, good to rip all that worrying old pipe out and put some modern stuff in.

Find a way to not spend the 20K for sure, but in the end, having sat there and flushed without a worry in the world is priceless to your mental health.

[johnsjmc]

I just went through almost exactly the same thing about a year ago. I bought a 110 yr old house in the core area. The sewer was shared with the neighbour and the majority of the line including the street connection was on the neighbours property. We knew when buying the house ,the sewer was shared but had been assured it was in good working order .HaHa.
At closing it was (but not for long) . Turned out it was the second flooded basement in 5 years and my insurance company would not pay for a third unless we replaced our side.
We had a very big rainstorm which flooded both basements because it exceeded the capacity of the single line.(roof runoff is combined into the sanitary in the old neighbourhoods ,now needs a separate storm drain).
I had a liner company estimate close to 25k to do both sides. We ended up using the old method of a back hoe and trench. Even that came to about 10-12k. The city required a new connection at a cost of $5k from the road centre to the property line and my contractor did the rest for another $5k. I managed to keep costs down a little because my hoe operator coordinated with the city and did the actual digging at both ends as a subcontractor to the city sewer dept.
The neighbour contributed to restoring the driveway and kept the old sewer with a spot repair . He now has a single old sewer and I have a brand new sewer complete with a backflow preventer valve. The city came up with a 3k grant to me for installing a backflow valve and a sump pump for rainwater . Total cost to us both was about $12-15k with me paying most, but I also got a partial grant of 3k . Talk to your city sewer dept and get a traditional quote . The trenchless liner jobs are hugely more expensive than a dig and only save if infrastructure like driveways and fences etc are going to cost more to replace than digging. I also found out the city used to subsidize new sewer connections to eliminate shared connections when found BUT that program was ended when they started giving grants for backflow valves. Consider several opinions and talk to the city about any subsidy or maybe even who their subcontractors are . The city might also allow repair to existing without requiring complete replacement , but a new line is better and I prefer all new not a linered old drain. Good luck.
My wife is a retired realtor and asks If you weren,t told about the shared sewer do you have any legal recourse with either the seller or the agents or both?

[GH85Carrera]

We just went through a sewer problem. All of a sudden the toilet did not flush properly. I check the clean-out in the back yard and it was full of "water" so I called Mr. Rooter, and of course it was Sunday Morning. He his a clog in 18 feet and I was happy it was going to be cheap. BUT, he could not get the end down into the city main. There was a further blockage. We had it scoped and sure enough the connection had become broken for whatever reason, possible the numerous small earthquakes we had have in the area. No one will know for sure.

That was the bad news, the worst news is the area where they would have to dig was under my 8x12 shed. I really did not want to empty the shed, and disassemble it just to move it. They ended up retrenching the sewer from the house around the shed To get down to the main sewer they dug a 9 foot deep hole. A new saddle tap, city inspection and fill up the hole. It only cost $1,100 for the new sewer line and $300 worth on new sod. Now we can flush the toilet and take a shower!

Sorry to hear about your problems. For sure call a second company and get a camera down your line and the neighbors line.

[vash]

Don't ask me how I know about Orangeburg "pipe". That a tar covered paper sewer line. That's right. Paper!!!


Sent via Jedi mind trick.

[VincentVega]

Same old orange stuff was in my old septic system. Amazing it lasted as long as it did.

I wouldnt want to pay a plumber to dig, rent a machine or hire a machine operator for that work.

[recycled sixtie]

Originally Posted by vash

Don't ask me how I know about Orangeburg "pipe". That a tar covered paper sewer line. That's right. Paper!!!


Sent via Jedi mind trick.

We had our sewer pipe line scoped about 20 years ago. It was compressed tar paper and got squeezed by the weight of the dirt above it to the point where exit was impeded. At that time it was about 40 years old guessing it was the original sewer pipe. Had the pipe replaced with pvc pipe. No issues at all since. Will likely outlive me. It seemed expensive at the time jackhammering through the concrete slab plus cost of install but as above says worry free flushing now.

[nota]

directional drilling can do that job
without tearing up lawns or removing trees
they running gas lines that way right now in my hood

there is an old cheaper rig called a bore and jack
but they are much harder to keep near a constant grade/slope
and require a pit to put the machine in

20 k to dig a 100ft line is way over priced unless super deep or solid rock

[jyl]

Here are two pictures.

First is the street where the city sewer line runs. My house is about 15' behind the fence.



This is inside my fence.



You can see the elevation change and the trees. If I do need a new connection, I'm pretty worried about avoiding serious damage to the tree roots.

The main stack in my basement is roughly 25' from the corner of the house that is shown in the second photo.

I wonder if the new line - again, if one is needed - can come from the house toward the street, turn 90 deg, run in my side yard parallel to the street, then turn and come down the stairs down in the first photo. This would avoid as many trees as possible. My gas line runs there, though.

Edit: maybe directional drilling would solve the tree issue. Certainly seems better than trenching.

[nota]

you really doNOT want bends in a sewer line
for sure NO 90*'s 4x22-1/2* if you must
flexible plastic like the gas lines their are using now
[ it come in a ten foot diameter roll ]
would be better then pvc joints for smooth curves
but maybe against local codes to put large bends in a sanitary sewer or even use flex pipe