How did the tail-end of Baby-Boomers produce such dysfunction?

[rusnak]

When I come across a hard working teen or early 20-something who wants a job, I want to hire them. And I sometimes do. But I insist on hiring experienced people.

Those (millennials) who have no relevant experience are told "no but thank you for your interest".

Those who ask where can they get experience if no one will hire them, I tell "Not my problem. Ask Obama, he didn't have any either".

I don't blame the millenials for the problems that the boomers created, and they are not done creating more - I just think it's really hard to find a millenial that is accountable and willing to work. That's not a pejorative statement, it's just a fact. And the reason that I insist on experience? The minimum wage has gone up 25% in the past 2 years. That's hyper inflationary. And it'll go up another 50% in the next 5 unless the Greatest Generation rises up in protest to stop the boomers from wrecking the economy. The millenials are too stupid and naive to know that the country will be destroyed by a $15 per hr. minimum wage. They listen too much to Sanders and Obama, thinking that they are leading the country to a better place, blah blah blah

[JD159]

Not to derail too much into a min wage debate, but what about the purchasing power of min wage now vs in the past?

A number of resources indicate that the real purchasing power of min wage has declined substantially since 1968.

Lets just for argument sake assume that it has and accept that point as true. Do point out if I am completely wrong. I can link to a couple of these things but just do a google for min wage and real purchasing power.

Obviously, if the min wage has to be increased substantially, in order to reinstate its real purchasing power, this will have negative effects on businesses and the economy.

So if the min wage cannot be raised to its once former glory, and relative to other countries the current min age isn't actually that bad, what does a country do?

Relative to other countries, the wage isn't that bad, relative to previous real purchasing power, it is far worse, but increasing it will wreck the economy. Moreover, it isn't like a ton of well paying family supporting jobs can just be created out of thin air. The companies, and those who hold all the money (certain big corporations, not the small and medium sized businesses) could do just fine paying employees more money, but won't because that will hurt the bottom line and shareholders won't be too pleased.

Looks like some kind of Chinese finger trap.

[rusnak]

The min wage is the Boomer's favorite experiement.

The issue is whether you're keeping up with inflation or not. And some regions have higher economic activity and higher costs of living than others. So this should be handled at the local, not even state or federal level.

The answer for you is that the best solution is to allow small businesses to grow. Cut back their taxes and regulatory oversight. Their growth will drive up wages and employment. Period. End of report.

[JD159]

Originally Posted by rusnak

The min wage is the Boomer's favorite experiement.

The issue is whether you're keeping up with inflation or not. And some regions have higher economic activity and higher costs of living than others. So this should be handled at the local, not even state or federal level.

The answer for you is that the best solution is to allow small businesses to grow. Cut back their taxes and regulatory oversight. Their growth will drive up wages and employment. Period. End of report.

Good answer.

Wouldn't increasing the min wage locally drive those businesses that have to conform out of that area to a cheaper area? It would be like musical chairs but instead of moving ones buttocks, you move economic activity.

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by rusnak

When I come across a hard working teen or early 20-something who wants a job, I want to hire them. And I sometimes do. But I insist on hiring experienced people.

Those (millennials) who have no relevant experience are told "no but thank you for your interest".

Those who ask where can they get experience if no one will hire them, I tell "Not my problem. Ask Obama, he didn't have any either".

I don't blame the millenials for the problems that the boomers created, and they are not done creating more - I just think it's really hard to find a millenial that is accountable and willing to work. That's not a pejorative statement, it's just a fact. And the reason that I insist on experience? The minimum wage has gone up 25% in the past 2 years. That's hyper inflationary. And it'll go up another 50% in the next 5 unless the Greatest Generation rises up in protest to stop the boomers from wrecking the economy. The millenials are too stupid and naive to know that the country will be destroyed by a $15 per hr. minimum wage. They listen too much to Sanders and Obama, thinking that they are leading the country to a better place, blah blah blah

the minimum wage compared to the cost of living is WAY down. if it had kept up with the cost of living, it would be over 20 dollars an hour right now.

so ... swing and a miss.

[JD159]

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

the minimum wage compared to the cost of living is WAY down. if it had kept up with the cost of living, it would be over 20 dollars an hour right now.

so ... swing and a miss.

Even if that is the case, and the minimum wage is way down compared to the cost of living, increasing it to over 20 dollars an hour, or even 15 dollars an hour, that fast, would have some serious ripples in the economy, especially small and medium sized businesses.

[rusnak]

Originally Posted by JD159

Good answer.

Wouldn't increasing the min wage locally drive those businesses that have to conform out of that area to a cheaper area? It would be like musical chairs but instead of moving ones buttocks, you move economic activity.

No, it's not about businesses not wanting to pay more, it's about the ability to pay more.

You either maintain margins or you close. (see the Idiot's response above. So dense there is no use in even discussing with him)

Here's how it works: When you are busy, you are making more money. You pay more to your better employees because everyone else is busy too, and they can switch employers. You know that, they know it, and you give them a raise. You hire more employees. Thus, wages and employment increase. You can also afford to raise prices because of your higher costs, and you're confident because you're busy that sales will not fall.

When you're not busy, and there is a recession (as there is now), you cut back. You control costs or you go out of business. When the government mandates a wage increase, you are forced to raise your prices or you go out of business. If sales fall as a result, you close.

When there are regional differences, such as in a urban center vs rural areas, and a government mandated minimum wage raises payroll faster than inflation (hello "Idiot" this is for you), then you can't pass those costs on fast enough to offset employment costs and you close, despite which area you're in. When the urban area can absorb the employment cost increases, the rurual area may not. It does not matter if a business from the urban area relocates to the rural area - it will close too. That results in an entire region having higher unemployemnt and less economic activity, other than government assistance such as welfare. If you really study California outside of the coastal cities, you can see this in action in real time, with real people and real dollars.

[rusnak]

Originally Posted by JD159

Even if that is the case, and the minimum wage is way down compared to the cost of living, increasing it to over 20 dollars an hour, or even 15 dollars an hour, that fast, would have some serious ripples in the economy, especially small and medium sized businesses.

That is exacly correct, JD. You understand.

[bobrestore]

I 'am a boomer ..... I have been totally pissed how things have unfolded from the time of Regan as Ca. Governor, forward...... A total head shrink on the boomer generation, "The powers that be" wrapped then selves in the winning "cloths" of the baby boomers, they would play the songs of the baby boomers as background music to sell any thing from pesticide to automobiles. The baby boomers wanted a taste of the good "things" in life as advertised. Regan was able to convince the public that the working man was undeserving. The air traffic controller take down was embraced by the media and businesses started taking down their employees unions by offering them cash to become "independent contractors", they would make more per hour and not have to pay union dues..... This worked and you would meet people in the gym that would say "screw the unions they never done anything for me".... Sadly ... a lot of those workers today have little or no private pension because of their choice...
Before the internet bubble there was the tech bubble that sucked in a lot of boomers trying to make up their retirement nest egg by buying stocks... When the market fell apart the Republicans were able to convince the public that it was the Democrats fault and they needed to vote Republican to save the market.... This lead to runaway government investment in arms and oversees operations and gave "comfort" to US companies to build and invest in foreign countrys.

[daepp]

I certainly haven't blamed Millenials for anything.

I think the so-called "Greatest Generation" only looks so in comparison to the generations that followed it. I don't think they were "great" relative to the ones that came before it.

And that generation, while great at some things - maybe even many things - failed in some key areas. And I know many of them who would or who did agree.

They failed to stamp out the seeds of progressivism in the 1920's-30's that allowed the Frankfurt School to take a hold of the universities in the 40's and 50's. You know, we really had almost no PhD before then in the US. Today the least free place for speech in America is the college campus, and teacher programs uniformly act to ensure Johnny can't read. And the Greatest Generation failed to stop the programs that willfully set to dismantle a great education system in this country.

They failed to understand the scope and the extent of the assault on the family. Some saw it - like the Esteemed Democrat Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan for one - warned prophetically about what the country would be like if children were raised without a father in the home. But most on both sides of the aisle ignored the warning signs.

And that Greatest Generation took for granted that the things that make us uniquely American. I don't think they understood how they needed to be actively taught, that they're not absorbed like through osmosis. And while they understood freedom was under attack by the Nazis and by the Japnese, I think they missed the more subtle attacks on the American values that support and promote freedom, liberty and natural law.

So no - I don't attack Millenials. I did my level best to raise three of them, and now they are productive members of society. I do fear for their future at times, but that's pretty normal when it comes to parents of my age.

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by JD159

Even if that is the case, and the minimum wage is way down compared to the cost of living, increasing it to over 20 dollars an hour, or even 15 dollars an hour, that fast, would have some serious ripples in the economy, especially small and medium sized businesses.

yeah it would be a HUGE boon for them.

more customers, with more money. nothing increases the velocity of money like low wage workers making more money.

in fact, most small businesses support raising the minimum wage: Small Business Majority Poll - Small Businesses Support Increasing Minimum Wage

[rusnak]

Originally Posted by daepp

I certainly haven't blamed Millenials for anything.

I think the so-called "Greatest Generation" only looks so in comparison to the generations that followed it. I don't think they were "great" relative to the ones that came before it.

And that generation, while great at some things - maybe even many things - failed in some key areas. And I know many of them who would or who did agree.

They failed to stamp out the seeds of progressivism in the 1920's-30's that allowed the Frankfurt School to take a hold of the universities in the 40's and 50's. You know, we really had almost no PhD before then in the US.

The Greatest Generation failed to stop the programs that willfully set to dismantle a great education system in this country.

They failed to understand the scope and the extent of the assault on the family. Some saw it - like the Esteemed Democrat Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan for one - warned prophetically about what the country would be like if children were raised without a father in the home. But most on both sides of the aisle ignored the warning signs.

And finally, that Greatest Generation took for granted that the things that make us uniquely American. I don't think they understood how they needed to be actively taught, that they're not absorbed like through osmosis. And while they understood freedom was under attack by the Nazis and by the Japnese, I think they missed the more subtle attacks on the American values that support and promote freedom, liberty and natural law.

So no - I don't attack Millenials. I did my level best to raise three of them, and now they are productive members of society. Info fear for their future at times, but that's pretty normal when it comes to parents of my age.

I only mention the "Greatest Generation" because they are retired. Here's what's going to happen. By 2020, when minimum MINIMUM wage is $15 per hr, the cost to the employee for the booger eating fresh out of middle school newbie worker will be a staggering $22 per HOUR. A McDonald's #1 value meal is going to be around $20. We will see everyone from Starbucks to Home Depot simply close up in rural areas.

And the Greatest Generation will have to go back to work, competing with Millenials for minimum wage jobs in order to make ends meet.

You guys on the board are mostly older than me. You want that for you? I don't want that for my parents.

[JD159]

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

yeah it would be a HUGE boon for them.

more customers, with more money. nothing increases the velocity of money like low wage workers making more money.

in fact, most small businesses support raising the minimum wage: Small Business Majority Poll - Small Businesses Support Increasing Minimum Wage

Thats true, but that would take a while. A few extra dollars wouldn't suddenly translate to enough money to buy all kinds of $hit, its only a few extra dollars.

Over time, that might be accurate, and people will spend more. But the immediate effects will be substantial. It would be a huge gamble. You can't just ask all the business in America to take a hit for a few years so people MIGHT spend more in the future.

I'm all for a huge min wage increase. If everyone could make 20 bucks an hour it would be fantastic, well not everyone. The burger flipper shouldn't make 20 bucks an hour. That is a student/transition job. You can't buy houses flipping burgers and you shouldn't be able to. But reaching a more comfortable pay for the majority of workers would take careful planning, time, and honesty.

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by JD159

But you probably used "kinda" because you don't need to include the space or the "of" so it's easier to type in an informal setting. Right?

Perhaps if you can wrap your brain around the concept, my incorrect usage of your, was for the same reason, as your use of "kinda". It's shorter, easier to type, and everyone knows exactly what your saying in an informal setting.

Kinda is a slang term. The user KNOWS it is not proper English and the user does not try to use it or present it as proper English.
I don't use it to save time, but now that you mention it there are several milliseconds at stake that I could put to a better use!

Now let's talk about your and You're for a millisecond.

Confusing a possessive adjective for a contraction leads people to suspect it is due to a lack of eduma-cation as if you did not know any better.
And no I don't want to super-size that order!

(philosophy major joke)

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by JD159

Thats true, but that would take a while. A few extra dollars wouldn't suddenly translate to enough money to buy all kinds of $hit, its only a few extra dollars.

Over time, that might be accurate, and people will spend more. But the immediate effects will be substantial. It would be a huge gamble. You can't just ask all the business in America to take a hit for a few years so people MIGHT spend more in the future.

I'm all for a huge min wage increase. If everyone could make 20 bucks an hour it would be fantastic, well not everyone. The burger flipper shouldn't make 20 bucks an hour. That is a student/transition job. You can't buy houses flipping burgers and you shouldn't be able to. But reaching a more comfortable pay for the majority of workers would take careful planning, time, and honesty.

people will spend more, because the poor live paycheck to paycheck. they spend all the money they make, putting it back into the economy, paying some other workers wages.

don't take my word for it, here is the man gordon gekko was based on, confirming why the poor making more money directly, and nearly instantly increases the velocity of money:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wAa9DqHZtM

[daepp]

Originally Posted by rusnak

I only mention the
You guys on the board are mostly older than me. You want that for you? I don't want that for my parents.

FWIW my comments re the Greatest Generation were for that close minded little Punk.

And also re that same demographic, aren't they all retirement age or worse?

Personally I think the Boomers (my age and older) get as much of the blame as anyone. And it's the retired Boomers who may have to get off their butts and get back to work - especially those who retire in their 50's, and I don't care what they did for a living.

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by daepp

Personally I think the Boomers (my age and older) get as much of the blame as anyone.

really? i don't thread after thread started by folks complaining how lazy, entitled and stupid boomers are.

yet this is a fairly regular occurrence when it comes to millennials.

[Seahawk]

Here is the deal: I own a small business, am partnered in another. All you folks are doing is making labels and trying to hang them on someone.

We look for smart, talented people with a work ethic. When we find them we pay them accordingly. The four best composite lay-up workers we have are a family from Romania, here legally. Dad was a MIG-21 pilot, Mom ran a fiberglass lay-up shop and their two children are more focused than CP with a paintball gun at $20 an hour.

Nobody in small business cares if you are a Millennial or the Millennium Falcon.

Can you contribute to our bottom line? The average small business hire stays with the small business two years before moving on. I hire talent, not age.

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by JD159

Thats true, but that would take a while. A few extra dollars wouldn't suddenly translate to enough money to buy all kinds of $hit, its only a few extra dollars.

Over time, that might be accurate, and people will spend more. But the immediate effects will be substantial. It would be a huge gamble. You can't just ask all the business in America to take a hit for a few years so people MIGHT spend more in the future.

I'm all for a huge min wage increase. If everyone could make 20 bucks an hour it would be fantastic, well not everyone. The burger flipper shouldn't make 20 bucks an hour. That is a student/transition job. You can't buy houses flipping burgers and you shouldn't be able to. But reaching a more comfortable pay for the majority of workers would take careful planning, time, and honesty.

It does not work like that in the real world. Sorry Komrade.

People should get paid based on what their labor or work is worth, supply and demand.

If any idiot off the street can do a job, and there are plenty of idiots WILLING to do it, then that job should pay about 50 cents an hour tops. (no offense CP)

If a a person's work is very valuable and contributes a great deal to the profitability of a company, and there are only a very few people available who can perform that work at that high level, then that job should pay extremely well.

The world needs ditch diggers too Danny.

No minimum wage, no communism. It doesn't work, it never has and never will.

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

It does not work like that in the real world. Sorry Komrade.

People should get paid based on what their labor or work is worth, supply and demand.

If any idiot off the street can do a job, and there are plenty of idiots WILLING to do it, then that job should pay about 50 cents an hour tops. (no offense CP)

If a a person's work is very valuable and contributes a great deal to the profitability of a company, and there are only a very few people available who can perform that work at that high level, then that job should pay extremely well.

The world needs ditch diggers too Danny.

No minimum wage, no communism. It doesn't work, it never has and never will.

it does actually, in study after study.

Economic Research | The Effects of Minimum Wages on Employment

Effects of raising the minimum wage: Research and key lessons - Journalist's Resource Journalist's Resource

Research Shows Minimum Wage Increases Do Not Cause Job Loss | Business For a Fair Minimum Wage

it turns out the world is more complex than high school level economics.



personally i cannot figure out how someone can be both against raising the minimum wage, and welfare. i mean, im a bleeding heart liberal, but even me, if given a choice of who to give my money to help them, would choose someone working rather than someone not working. in this way, minimum wage functions as non-government welfare, with a perfect record of checking employment status. so if you don't want to raise the minimum wage, great, then your willing to pay for folks to survive who arnt working? or should they just die? or, you pay folks a living wage, even if there job isn't worth it, for the only reason of incetivizing doing SOMETHING rather than doing nothing.

so even from that side, even if you do believe every myth about minimum wage, if you want folks to work rather than not work, then STILL it makes sense to raise the minimum wage.