Have I lost it? Elise vs. 911 SC

[Sicklyscott]

Hey Folks -

I got bit by the DE bug hard. I did an event last year at VIR in my 2015 Chevy SS and one this year at Thunderbolt (NJMP) in my '80 911. I think it's a bad idea to run my DD at the track and the 911 though competent gets very expensive and could use a bit more power (or less weight). I've been trying to find something that could fill both the Cars and Coffee role and the DE role. Caymans are too common, newer 911's without the dreaded bearing issues are too expensive, not a whole lot is out there that seems "cool" in the 30k price range.

Thus enter the Lotus Elise. It might only have 190 hp but it ways ~2000 lbs. Running costs seem to be comparatively low thanks in part to the Toyota sourced motor. Good examples are around the 30k mark with some cheaper and others a bit more. They are VERY capable track cars and are on the rare side with an estimated 4000 imported for the entire run.

Have I lost my mind? Move from a beautiful classic that is appreciating to a tiny little high strung go-kart? I'll only be doing a couple track days a year until my kid grows up a bit but I'd really like to learn on something I'm going to stick with and it just seems like the Lotus is the smart money option.

Untitled by sicklyscott, on Flickr



-S

[Nickshu]

I sold my 82 911SC in 2013. Honestly I loved that car but don't miss it a bit, strangely I thought I would. I sold it for the same reasons as you...parts prices, etc. About two years later I bought a 2005 Elise with 14K original miles, one owner car.

Have you ever driven an Elise? I would recommend you do first. Here's the bottom line...The classic 911 was a road car that could be taken to the track. The Elise is a track car that can be taken on the road.

The Elise is loud, squeaky, raw. You sit on a thin slab of aluminum two inches off the ground. There is virtually no sound insulation, you hear every pebble that hits the floor. I wear earplugs when I drive it on the highway. It's hard to get in and out of with the hardtop on. If you get one with A/C (mine does not have A/C) it doesn't work very well. It's a handbuilt British sports car so you get the issues that come with that. There are many fixes to little issues out there. Probably the biggest one is the rear toe link setup, the rear toe links loosen up and break off resulting in loss of control of the car. There are two or three aftermarket fixes for this I'd recommend you do that right away.

That said, the Elise is way more fun to drive than my 911 ever was. Man does it stick to the road. Don't worry about the HP, the car weights 1800 pounds! I did install the BOE ECU tune which gets about 20 more HP and lowers the cam changeover which makes a big difference. There are supercharger kits out there that are easy bolt on. For parts Sector111 is a great aftermarket parts supplier. BOE has a lot of good stuff for the Elise too.

I would have driven the 911 every day though, the Elise...no way. The Elise is a true "sports" car, really intended for track/autocross use primarily and occasional road use. There are people who drive them everyday, crazy people LOL. Actually after a couple HPDE's I rarely drive it on the street now and I am buying a trailer to haul it to/from the track b/c driving on the highway is no fun.

The car you show above does not have the sport pack/track pack option. You can tell by the wheels (unless someone changed them), mine has the sport/track wheels see photo below - mine were powdercoated black, originally they were silver. If you are going to track/autoX the car I'd recommend you find one w/ this option. You get better suspension, bigger wheels/tires, and most importantly dual oil coolers at the front corners to keep engine temps down. Later Sport/track cars got an improved toelink setup from the Exige that is less prone to issues.

LotusTalk is a community similar to Pelican, great group of people. I hang over there under the same username. PM me if you have questions.

[aschen]

my exige is way more fun to drive than my 930, or any other car I have driven for that matter. I love oil pumping Porsches. They are my favorites. Turbo 3.6 has always been my dream car since it was still new in dealerships. However, these cars feel like a boat compared to an elise


I always say an elige is a poor mans Carrera RS in my book. The go kart analogy is a cliché but it is so spot on for these cars. Must of you have been to one of those racing go kart tracks right? You know how when you get into your regular car, it feels like a boat and is awkward to get used to for a few min? This doesn't happen in an elige. I had an elise before which I loved as well.

There are 10,000 philosophical discussions about living with these cars. Look around and do some reading. There is one huge drawback to the car for your application though. If you have an bad off or tap a tire wall, there is a pretty good chance you can total the car. I think I am getting rid of my exige for that reason. I don't do much in the way of HPDE lately, but the few times ive been on track with the car: I am grinning ear to ear but always a bit nervous about killing it.

It a bit of a catch 22 with these cars.

[jyl]

What would your 911 feel like if you took about 400 lb out? Without doing anything non reversible.

[aschen]

Im sure losing 400lbs would help alot, but I think you would have another 400 to go to match the lotus.

Nick I wonder if your car spent any time in houston. I met a guy who bought a CO elise and got it delivered to Houston. Nobody told him it had factory AC delete. Poor guy even paid for a local PPI and they had a check mark for HVAC functions properly. That is a no go for houston and he was looking to get rid of it.

I cont mind driving these cars on the highway on nice enough days. I actually think it is sorta cozy and comfy in there. My car has the track package which is even a bit rougher than the sport package and it doesnt bother me too much. The biggest issue is no rear side visibilty with the exige, elise is much nicer in that regard.

[stuartj]

Originally Posted by aschen

my exige....

Possibly the most fun you can have sitting down with your clothes on.

[island911]

Originally Posted by Nickshu

...many fixes to little issues out there. Probably the biggest one is the rear toe link setup, the rear toe links loosen up and break off resulting in loss of control of the car. ...

That sounds like a huge adrenalin rush, right there.

British, you say....

[recycled sixtie]

I would consider a car as low as an Elise, Caterham 7, or any car of this height to be of greater risk driven on the streets or hiways. 911, Boxster or Miata slightly less so.

Nickshu you have made a wise move to trailer your Elise to the track. Likely safer driving it on the track than off.

That would be my thought being safety - that is not being seen on the road. Many folks don't have their side mirrors angled down enough to see even a Miata never mind an Elise.

[aschen]

Originally Posted by stuartj

Possibly the most fun you can have sitting down with your clothes on.

fun cars for sure

[aschen]

Originally Posted by recycled sixtie

I would consider a car as low as an Elise, Caterham 7, or any car of this height to be of greater risk driven on the streets or hiways. 911, Boxster or Miata slightly less so.

Nickshu you have made a wise move to trailer your Elise to the track. Likely safer driving it on the track than off.

That would be my thought being safety - that is not being seen on the road. Many folks don't have their side mirrors angled down enough to see even a Miata never mind an Elise.

You drive it like a motorcycle, leave room and stay out of peoples blind spots.


Otherwise it has airbags, ABS, and side impact beams. I think it is probably safer in a collision than say an early 911

[rusnak]

I love the thought of driving an Elise, but for quick jaunts to the coast, the 911 or Cayman would be my pick. The Elise is a lot like my 914-6, in that it's got a super short wheelbase, is light, flexible, and you can stick a coffee cup on the side window while turning, and not have it fall off the glass.

The sane answer is to own both.

[intakexhaust]

Originally Posted by Sicklyscott

Thus enter the Lotus Elise. It might only have 190 hp but it ways ~2000 lbs. Running costs seem to be comparatively low thanks in part to the Toyota sourced motor. Good examples are around the 30k mark with some cheaper and others a bit more. They are VERY capable track cars and are on the rare side with an estimated 4000 imported for the entire run.

Have I lost my mind? Move from a beautiful classic that is appreciating to a tiny little high strung go-kart? I'll only be doing a couple track days a year until my kid grows up a bit but I'd really like to learn on something I'm going to stick with and it just seems like the Lotus is the smart money option.


-S

I secretly like your thinking. On one hand, an old school air-cooled car, driving it to a track and abuse it for a day, drive back home is purist clubman! Learn to hone and master that thing. Never tiring. This is most appealing and has character.

Though, who's to say you can't do the same with the Lotus? But how does one store and haul the spares? So incredibly tempting having a street go-cart but somehow don't see it taking the abuse. Very much a limited use vehicle. Then if the case, consider a race car. Start with a budget fun little FF or spec racer.

[Jeff Higgins]

I've driven a number of these on the track over the years, and agree they are wonderful for that duty. I was, however, in each and every case glad to see someone else bringing it home with them. They are no more than a track toy, which could be awesome if you have the room in your garage and in your budget for such a thing.

I don't. As such, I need a much more versatile toy car. Mine needs to do weekend touring duty (including camping), weekend morning and after work "stress relief" duty, and the like. I need way more room than an Elise provides. Hell, I can carry more stuff with me on my Harley than anyone can in their Elise, assuming two people in (or on) either.

But, yeah - if your SS fills those other duties for you, go for it. The little Lotus is a really, really fun car.

[GH85Carrera]

Try getting into one and driving it. You don't get in, you wear it like a glove. It is small and tight in there. Only take small passengers! If you have any bad joints in knees or hips, forget it.

Great car for the track otherwise.

[Sicklyscott]

Originally Posted by intakexhaust

I secretly like your thinking. On one hand, an old school air-cooled car, driving it to a track and abuse it for a day, drive back home is purist clubman! Learn to hone and master that thing. Never tiring. This is most appealing and has character.

Though, who's to say you can't do the same with the Lotus? But how does one store and haul the spares? So incredibly tempting having a street go-cart but somehow don't see it taking the abuse. Very much a limited use vehicle. Then if the case, consider a race car. Start with a budget fun little FF or spec racer.

I've been contemplating selling the 911 for a while. I purchased it as a tick off of the bucket list under the guise that it was an investment with the hopes that it at least would not depreciate. I got lucky on that and now that it's up I almost feel obligated to take the profits while they're there.

My car isn't particularly "nice", any purist would have a field day picking it apart. It is not original, it will never be put back to original spec. Tuning it more for the track was what I had in mind until I started worrying about engine rebuilds. I decided to do one DE with it to see if I even liked driving the old girl on the track, it was VERY enjoyable. A very good bonding experience except even in the green run group i got lapped. There's no doubt part of it was driver skill but another part was sheer power. Running solo helped show what dropping 150 lbs could do. Changing bumpers, FG deck lid, rear seats, AC delete, and a lighter weight battery could shed 200 lbs together which will drop it to around 2450 lbs, but it's still under powered by today's standards. And fixing that problem is quite an expensive task.

I've looked into having a dedicated race car but for 2-4 sessions a year it seems like overkill. I also have limited room at home and a wife who doesn't understand the need to have a car for every occasion. Needless to say an additional car is not in the cards.

As you can tell I truly think the Elise is the answer to my "problem" with the exception of a couple things:

1. It's not as cool as an aircooled 911.
2. It's not as pretty as an aircooled 911.
3. I'm not so sure I fit!

Thanks for the feedback so far. I'll check out LotusTalk and see what's happening over there.

[87maniac]

Nickshu nailed it -
Elise is fun for 2-3 hours, after that you're beat up.

If you're looking for lightweight sports car there are few options.
( Cayman/Boxster are too heavy @ ~2900+ lbs )

- MR2 Spyder (2001-2005) ~-2200 lbs- mid-engine go-kart feel, good highway comfort, great AC

- Miata ~2150 lbs- Gay car, but very fun and capable when supercharged/turbo'd

- Beck 550 - ~1500 lbs Not a daily driver, lots of engine choices.

But the Elise is soooo exotic looking.
If your back can take the pounding, go for it !!!

[onewhippedpuppy]

You say for a few track days. Are you potentially replacing a car that you could drive daily with a car that you will only use a few times per year?

[rusnak]

^ Sounds that way to me.

[Sicklyscott]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

You say for a few track days. Are you potentially replacing a car that you could drive daily with a car that you will only use a few times per year?

If you look at the 911 as something I can drive daily then yes. However I have owned the 911 for 3 years and have racked up a whopping 3000 miles with this car (500 in the past month for the track day).

I would like a car I can take out to the local cars and coffee a couple times a summer, maybe a couple commutes to work and the occasional summer night drive. I do not plan on driving the car in poor weather unless of course I'm at the track / office and it decides to rain.

[aschen]

ah come on guys Im a sissy and I don't mind driving one of these cars around one bit. I as going to take mine to work today but my wife parked behind me

I wouldn't do it every day but its not excruciating or anything. Actually I did daily my elise for about 6 months, it wasn't that big of a deal. The attention was the worst part.