Haqve we reached "peak engine"?

[pwd72s]

Interesting read...any thoughts?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/reached-peak-engine-183500889.html

[fanaudical]

Yeah, maybe we're there.

Frankly, I'm surprised that a hybrid powertrain based on micro-turbines (with all kinds of heat-scavenging gadgets to harvest every last bit of electricity) hasn't made the news yet. I think this may be the next evolution of internal-combustion engines for vehicles (and maybe the last) before batteries take over completely.

[wdfifteen]

Could be we are there. It wouldn't bother me as long as interesting legacy vehicles like the ones I've owned for decades aren't regulated off the road. I have no desire to buy a brand new 50 year old car. For the most part cars sucked 50 years ago.

[petrolhead611]

Not even as long ago as 50 years.Galvanized bodyshells didn't conme in almost universally until at least the late 80's around about the same time that electronic engine management provided real reliability (but Lord help you if it failed)

[David]

I think we're a long way from internal combustion engines going away at least not until battery technology takes a huge leap forward.

I do expect nearly all vehicles to be some form of hybrid relatively soon. There's just too much energy wasted in braking not recover as much as possible.

Here's some new technology that may better integrate ICE's with electric motors:

Is this grad student's transmission the future of hypercars? | Autoweek

[Seahawk]

Interesting article.

In my industry (unmanned air systems) advances in propulsion technologies (battery improvements, thin film cells, fuel cells, other gases, etc.) have increased endurance remarkably.

We call it SWaP: Space, weight and power, the three pillars of flight that drive limitless sub tasks. We have been able to take advantage not only of improvements in propulsion but also in the supporting technologies like avionics, GPS receiver weights, conformal antennas, auto pilots and materials...all leading to significant SWaP improvements with lower costs and improved mean time between failures.

I expect the same advancements in the auto industry.

They key, as always, is cost, maintenance, infrastructure and supportability. I can get in my stupidly inefficient Toyota truck and go anywhere at any time with no worries about any of the above with minimal attention on my part. I do not, selfishly, want to give that up.

[Nickshu]

I think the future is probably electric vehicles for short trip urban areas and some suburban mixed with hybrid IC for those who live further out as well as busses and tractor/trailers. Personally I hope to see hydrogen fuel cells replace the hybrid ICs. I doubt we'll see battery technology that will replace hybrid IC in our lifetimes unless we have a major breakthrough.

I see the next things in current IC engines being electronic valvetrains, variable compression, and also the electric driven turbo/superchargers we are currently seeing from various carmakers.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by Nickshu

I think the future is probably electric vehicles for short trip urban areas and some suburban mixed with hybrid IC for those who live further out as well as busses and tractor/trailers. Personally I hope to see hydrogen fuel cells replace the hybrid ICs. I doubt we'll see battery technology that will replace hybrid IC in our lifetimes unless we have a major breakthrough.

I agree. A friend of mine lives in Arlington, Va and works at the Pentagon. The Metro stop is a block away.

He has an EV that, in the DC metro area works perfectly well.

We met for a meeting north of Baltimore last week and he showed up in a Zipcar. The Zipcar place is a five miles away. He Ubered there then drove to the meeting. He can also park his EV at their lot for free. He uses them or Enterprise when he need long range driving.

He went from three cars (suburban home) to one car without a hitch.

[Por_sha911]

Originally Posted by Seahawk

I agree. A friend of mine lives in Arlington, Va and works at the Pentagon. The Metro stop is a block away.
He has an EV that, in the DC metro area works perfectly well.
We met for a meeting north of Baltimore last week and he showed up in a Zipcar. The Zipcar place is a five miles away. He Ubered there then drove to the meeting. He can also park his EV at their lot for free. He uses them or Enterprise when he need long range driving.
He went from three cars (suburban home) to one car without a hitch.

Sounds great. Your example proves that EV is a specialty car like a tool you only use to time your cams. Works great but don't need it 99% of the time.
What about the other 70% if us that don't live in urban areas? Oh, never mind. We've already been down that road in other threads.

[jcommin]

If you look at NASCAR history, in the 60's the automakers knew there was a limit to how much horsepower you could create to go fast. They turned their attention to aerodynamics - which is why Chrysler came up with the Superbird. Windtunnel testing is commonplace today.

Necessity is the mother of invention and as we drive to reduce gas consumption, emissions and make cars safer, you can only get so much from weight reduction and engine performance. Admittedly, there have been great strides in engine design and fuel economy but there are limits. We are at the beginning of that.

The other thing that is happening - there are fewer 18 yr olds driving today than at any time. Car loan terms are longer. The desire to own a car, especially in urban areas is almost a liability. That $30K cars sits more than it is used. Its no wonder why ride share is popular.

As long as gas prices remain low, it may slow the proliferation of alternative powered vehicles but it won't slow down ride share.

[Charles Freeborn]

Well, the gasoline engine is certainly obsolete for short hop driving. Even the 2-300 mile range electrics are overkill. All one really needs for the majority of urban / suburban commuting is a glorified golf cart with a 50 mile range. However, in order for that to work the road system would need some updating too. There would be roads or lanes for the small vehicles and ones for larger ones, bicycles too. Man would I love to see bicycles off the streets that cars use...
If my wife's Acura RSX wasn't paid for and got well over 30 mi./ gal. we'd swap it out for a small electric like a Leaf and keep the Outback for road trips and my work activities, which frequently involves pulling a trailer.
The 911, well that's in a different category...

[Aerkuld]

Originally Posted by fanaudical

Yeah, maybe we're there.

Frankly, I'm surprised that a hybrid powertrain based on micro-turbines (with all kinds of heat-scavenging gadgets to harvest every last bit of electricity) hasn't made the news yet. I think this may be the next evolution of internal-combustion engines for vehicles (and maybe the last) before batteries take over completely.

Wrightspeed Debuts New Turbine For Commercial Vehicles

You mean like this?

[rusnak]

I see no causal connection between the development of the ICE to it's obsolescence.

In order to support the theory of EVs being just around the corner, batteries would have to become as efficient as fossil fuel in order to store the amount of energy contained in a tank of gas in a battery of the same size. And then there is the problem of generating that much electricity, not just storing it.

[fanaudical]

Aerkuld - Yes - Like that. I would think this would scale down to passenger cars at some point.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by fanaudical

Yeah, maybe we're there.

Frankly, I'm surprised that a hybrid powertrain based on micro-turbines (with all kinds of heat-scavenging gadgets to harvest every last bit of electricity) hasn't made the news yet. I think this may be the next evolution of internal-combustion engines for vehicles (and maybe the last) before batteries take over completely.

Micro-Turbines have issues. They are not more efficient than a car engine. They are longer lasting in continuous operation. They do not do well in start/stop cycles, which is what you do with a Hybrid.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by Nickshu

I think the future is probably electric vehicles for short trip urban areas and some suburban mixed with hybrid IC for those who live further out as well as busses and tractor/trailers. Personally I hope to see hydrogen fuel cells replace the hybrid ICs. I doubt we'll see battery technology that will replace hybrid IC in our lifetimes unless we have a major breakthrough.

I see the next things in current IC engines being electronic valvetrains, variable compression, and also the electric driven turbo/superchargers we are currently seeing from various carmakers.

I'll agree with most, except for the hydrogen part. Methane fuel cells, but not hydrogen.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by rusnak

I see no causal connection between the development of the ICE to it's obsolescence.

In order to support the theory of EVs being just around the corner, batteries would have to become as efficient as fossil fuel in order to store the amount of energy contained in a tank of gas in a battery of the same size. And then there is the problem of generating that much electricity, not just storing it.

Yep. Look at my Tesla Power-Wall thread. Either you have reasonably priced batteries, low weight or long life. The fall off in battery capability in the power-wall shows the problem. 3000 cycles may mean it will last 10 years, but after 3-4 years, it is down to 60% of its original capacity.

6 kWh of usable capacity Advanced Lead Acid batteries with 3000 cycles costs about $2000. A Power-wall with similar usable capacity costs around $3500. Don't get me started on the equipment to make use of lithium batteries.

[Flieger]

Hey, red-beard, can I write your name in on the ballot this year?

[red-beard]

Better than any of the other choices

[Flieger]

Originally Posted by red-beard

Better than any of the other choices

Well, it's either you or Dan Gurney as far as I'm concerned.