Lever Spoons

[jyl]

I have one lever gun, and I think the companies are missing a chance to improve the ergonomics.

The loop lever is thin hard metal, and uncomfortable on the tops of the fingers, at least if you have bony fingers and/or soft office worker hands. And the motion of pushing the lever down is unnatural, your hand is not designed to exert force in the "opening" direction, it is designed to exert force in the "closing" direction.

A modern lever gun should require very little force to move the lever to the open position, in fact I think it should have a spring and a detent so you push it partway and it self-opens fully. Then all the work of cycling the action should be done as the lever is closed, when your hand is working in the direction that it is designed for.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by jyl

I have one lever gun, and I think the companies are missing a chance to improve the ergonomics.

The loop lever is thin hard metal, and uncomfortable on the tops of the fingers, at least if you have bony fingers and/or soft office worker hands. And the motion of pushing the lever down is unnatural, your hand is not designed to exert force in the "opening" direction, it is designed to exert force in the "closing" direction.

A modern lever gun should require very little force to move the lever to the open position, in fact I think it should have a spring and a detent so you push it partway and it self-opens fully. Then all the work of cycling the action should be done as the lever is closed, when your hand is working in the direction that it is designed for.

The Savage 99 works as you describe. It does not self-open, but all of the effort is on closing. It cocks on closing, with cocking the hammer or striker being the greatest part of the effort in operating the lever in any levergun.

This sounds like it should be better, but in effect, it well and truly sucks. The angle of the lever is simply too shallow, and we wind up having to hook the thumb over the grip in an effort to squeeze the lever shut. Otherwise, we are left to try to lift the lever closed and into battery, with no leverage at this awkward angle. We are not pulling back on the lever to return it to battery - we are lifting up in that last inch or so of motion.

On other lever guns, the cocking effort is on opening, and we are using our shoulder muscles to push the lever away from us - a very powerful motion. The lifting and closing part of the motion is then effortless. Believe me, I have fired thousands of rounds with both systems. Give me the Winchester / Marlin any day over the Savage.

[red-beard]

I'm trying to reduce my ammo calibers, and have a Winchester 1894 in 30-30. The SN puts it in the range built around WWII. Blueing 98%. I bought from a dealer in Maine, who picked it up from an estate sale. PM with e-mail address if interested.

[Tobra]

I have seen magazine fed in 9 mm that use Glock magazines. Pull the slide off the pistol and put the lower part on the semi auto carbine upper. It is given that it is not a JMB design, but I don't think it would make your soul fall out if you shot it, even if I would prefer a lever gun in .357

[J P Stein]

I had a 30-30 Marlin years ago.....didn't care for it.
The Henry .22Mag was sold in a moment of weakness.

[Don Ro]

I bought a Henry .22 mag lever back in 2008...just because I wanted to salve over my regret.
Like you, I sold my Win. .22 mag 30 yrs. ago and regret it.
Never fired the Henry but the action is quite smooth.
.
Since then, I've purchased two collectable .22 Win levers off Gunbroker.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by J P Stein

I had a 30-30 Marlin years ago.....didn't care for it.
The Henry .22Mag was sold in a moment of weakness.

Reminds me of a quick sea story.

My neighbor is every ground hogs worse nightmare. His GH to Valhalla tally averages 30 to 40 a year and he has been at it for over a decade. His weapon of choice is a Bushmaster Varminter, a phenomenally accurate gun.

And I basically gave the gun to him 11 years ago: I hated the Varminter, everything about it was wrong for me. I had some really long range GH kills with it, but I just did not like it. I traded it to him for a Ruger Ranch rifle, which he disliked.

In his hands the Varminter whistles GH's to a swift demise.

So the thing is, my advice like so many others here, see if you can shoot whatever you fancy in advance of purchase. Expectations of a match between shooter and gun are often off by Cardinal Headings.

I love the Ranch Rifle and the Marlin...other may not and I really get it.

Pic from Thursday's T-Day shoot.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by Tobra

I have seen magazine fed in 9 mm that use Glock magazines. Pull the slide off the pistol and put the lower part on the semi auto carbine upper. It is given that it is not a JMB design, but I don't think it would make your soul fall out if you shot it, even if I would prefer a lever gun in .357

Soul:



Soulless:



Sorry, can't help myself. Both are fantastic firearms. The beauty of it all is that we each get to choose whatever tickles our fancy. And, even better, for most of us it's not an either/or proposition - we can simply get one of each. God bless America...

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

..
. for most of us it's not an either/or proposition - we can simply get one of each. God bless America...

You're FOS funny....ONE, did you actually type that

[rfuerst911sc]

Forgive my ignorance but will a rifle chambered for .357 magnum also fire .38 ? How is the trajectory/range down range with pistol ammo being fired through a rifle ? It certainly makes sense to combine calibers just from a ammo management perspective. So would a 180 gr. .357 shot through a rifle be similar in performance to a 30-30 ? Or 30-06 or ?

[id10t]

Because of course a EBR can't have nice wood...

Some recently posted for sale for the FN-FAL type...

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by rfuerst911sc

Forgive my ignorance but will a rifle chambered for .357 magnum also fire .38 ? How is the trajectory/range down range with pistol ammo being fired through a rifle ? It certainly makes sense to combine calibers just from a ammo management perspective. So would a 180 gr. .357 shot through a rifle be similar in performance to a 30-30 ? Or 30-06 or ?

Yes, any rifle chambered in .357 will also shoot .38 Specials. Any rifle chambered in a handgun caliber will be on the low velocity end of the centerfire rifle spectrum, with a pretty high trajectory. They work great out to 100, maybe 150 yards, though.

No commercially loaded ammunition in .357 caliber will even begin to approach .30-30 performance in a rifle. They will provide about half, maybe a bit more, of the muzzle energy of the .30-30. Hand loaders can extract a good deal more performance from the .357 in a stout rifle, but this is well into "graduate level" hand loading.

Oh, and as far as the FN/FAL - one of my all-time favorite rifles. When I was looking to stick a toe back into the "black rifle" game (and was really looking for a wood stocked "black rifle"), the FN/FAL narrowly lost out to my new M1A. I had one in the past, back when they were pretty available and reasonably priced. Foolishly let it go when I got hopelessly mired in the single shot, levergun, and muzzle loader genres. One of the all-time "classics" for sure. And ya know, I'm having so much fun with the M1A and its little brother the Mini 14, that I just might have to start looking for a good FN/FAL.

[MMiller]

Originally Posted by Bill Douglas

Handle a Miroku (the shotgun people) lever action. As smooth as silk. It makes other lever actions feel decidedly clunky. Beautifully finished too, and as accurate as you will get with a lever action.

Damn PPOT giving me an itch... I'm curious about the new Winchesters as well. I have owned a few spoons made by Miroku and all have been wonderful.

Want bad.. Model 1873 Short Rifle

[Bill Douglas]

LOL, yes, going on this free BBS has cost me a lot of money

[Tobra]

Mike, just the sort of thing I had in mind, maybe a Henry.

Iron sights, not reaching out more than 100-150 yards anyway. .357 out of an 18" or 20" barrel will do just fine.

[MMiller]

Originally Posted by Tobra

Mike, just the sort of thing I had in mind, maybe a Henry.

Iron sights, not reaching out more than 100-150 yards anyway. .357 out of an 18" or 20" barrel will do just fine.

We are on the same page.

I have a huge soft spot for Winchesters. For me lever action = A Win. I know there are lots of other great makes out there but my eye does not wonder. I have owned a few dozen Win over the years but sold all but one mint 1957 model 94. These new Miruko have peaked my interest again.

I also like matching calibers. 22lr auto pistol with 10/22, my 9mm Glock with my 9mm AR..... And maybe a Win in 357 to go with my GP100.