When to go over the boss's head?

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

....Prove yourself as a high performer and he might be more apt to invest in you and listen to your feedback. Letting your performance do the talking is always the best case scenario.

^^^^ This...on the few occasions I "did what I had to do"....well, those didn't happen in a vacuum, and garnered prompt attention. Good luck Rick...sounds as if you're doing just fine !

[Rick Lee]

Funny story.

Around 2008 my boss was a good buddy and a music guy. He lives in Baltimore and I had just moved to AZ. I think he had mentioned he was going to see Van Halen soon. One day I needed a VP's signature on a contract like immediately. I couldn't locate my boss, IM'ed, emailed, called all his phones, nowhere to be found. Had to have that signature right then and there. So I called his boss. His boss didn't question a thing, knew that if I was calling him, I had my reasons, signed the contract, scanned and emailed it right back.

An hour later my boss called me up and his first words were, "What the fook are you doing, telling my boss I'm not working today? WTF?" I replied that I told him no such thing, just that I couldn't reach you and had an urgent matter only someone with a VP title could handle. Then I said, "I thought you mentioned going to see VH tonight, so I assumed you took the day off and are tailgating with your buddies. Though I didn't say that to your boss." He waffled a bit and said he was working from home, had Internet issues, couldn't get onto the VPN, blah, blah. No matter, I told him he didn't owe me an explanation.

Sure enough, a few hours later he drunk dialed me from the VH show, screaming into the phone how great Eddie is and holding the phone up so I could hear this or that guitar solo.

Yup, strictly professional operations I work for.

[VincentVega]

good story, only I'm a bit surprised you werent there too

[Rick Lee]

And today I got an email from the HR boss in Germany, inviting me to a meeting to discuss my initial performance with her, my boss and the big German boss in attendance. This is for the week when I'm in the office in Germany. Her email included an attachment she asked me to complete and email her before the meeting. When I opened it, all the questions pretty much ask me to rate and review my boss - "Was your training adequate, Are you being given the proper tools, Have expectations been communicated," etc. It sounds like a glowing opportunity to cover my boss's ass and make everyone look and feel good. I'll play along.

[aschen]

My boss is in Norway, but my boss's boss is right down the hall from me and I have a long history with him. I go directly to my boss's boss all the time. I always copy my boss on emails and tell him what I am doing. "hey boss man I needed emergency approval on xxxx so I went down to the execs office yesterday" etc. There has got to be a way to communicate the right people, the intended message, with dignity and integrity intact. Hell if you have a good idea, make it sound like it is your boss's or it is "team findings".

I have had some VP bosses in the past that I don't see eye to eye with on many things. However, usually people get in high positions for some reason or another, and may have some insights you don't. You want him to look good, even if he has some deficiencies.

[aschen]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

And today I got an email from the HR boss in Germany, inviting me to a meeting to discuss my initial performance with her, my boss and the big German boss in attendance. This is for the week when I'm in the office in Germany. Her email included an attachment she asked me to complete and email her before the meeting. When I opened it, all the questions pretty much ask me to rate and review my boss - "Was your training adequate, Are you being given the proper tools, Have expectations been communicated," etc. It sounds like a glowing opportunity to cover my boss's ass and make everyone look and feel good. I'll play along.

I think it would be easy enough to communicate some ideas just put a positive spin on everything. everything is great, I think there are a few minor opportunities to do things even better........

[Rick Lee]

UPDATE

You guys will love this. I'm a week back from Germany now and the week in the office there was, well, it went kind of sideways. Everything seemed to be going great until about the fourth night, when the big boss had us all out to his place for a beer-soaked bbq. Most of us were pretty drunk, but my boss got really drunk and then belligerent and started a fight with another manager from Brazil. If we hadn't all been huddled together on a long picnic table bench, my boss would have been able to hit the guy. Fortunately for him, he couldn't reach and the big German boss had just gone to the bathroom, so he missed it all. But his wife was there and witnessed it all. I don't think she speaks any English, but she surely understood what was going on, and I have to think she told her husband everything after we all left. The mood was shot after that and the ones who were sober drove us all back to the hotel. The next afternoon most of those guys headed to another office for some managers meetings, though I'm sure spent the weekend in between hitting the bars, if not brothels too. By then I was on my own, driving to Austria for vacation.

That whole situation was probably compounded by the CEO's decision to scale back the $10k/month Google AdWords campaign my boss talked him into, but only produced three or four leads in the first month. My boss had boasted that he regularly gets calls from recruiters and thus has options. I'm predicting he starts taking those calls now. Very weird developments.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

UPDATE...

You guys will love this.

Is this a good thing for you, Rick? Did this open up other opportunities or at least validate to others what you have been seeing? Do you have a shot at the departing guy's job?

In any event, your post brought back some old memories.

As a white water rafting guide in the late 70's, we would routinely take senior management from companies on a three day rafting trip for "team building" or whatever they called it in the 70's.

I have witnessed more than one beer fueled fist fight with taking a bunch f type A knuckle-draggers down a river..

One in particular stands out: I booked a trip for the leadership of the San Jose Mercury News. The first night went well but the second night was, added and abetted by vodka (those boys could drink) a brawl that started when one guy accused another guy of being a "hack"...apparently the newspaper worlds equivalent of the N word.

It was on and ended up including all 20 dudes. It was spectacular.

The were all in their 40's and 50's, drunk, after two tiring days on the river the brawl didn't last long. Lots of hugging and crying after that.

Team building the old fashion way

[herr_oberst]

Do you work for Uber?

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by Seahawk

Is this a good thing for you, Rick? Did this open up other opportunities or at least validate to others what you have been seeing? Do you have a shot at the departing guy's job?

I just don't know. I absolutely don't (yet) have the industry and product knowledge to take over his job. If he were to leave, they'd probably not replace him and then just make me report to the guy in Brazil or Germany until I was up to speed and could assume the departed boss's role.

[Rick Lee]

UPDATE

I'm not the paranoid type, but feel like I'm getting set up for a spanking. We went to a trade show in late Oct. and didn't get a whole lot of traffic at our booth. Most of the attendees weren't decision makers, and so weren't great prospects. Around early Nov. my boss said to me on the phone that we need to talk the following week about a follow-up plan for the folks we met at the show and somehow incorporate that into my Q4 goals. Never heard about it again after that.

Friday he sent me a very formal email stating I had missed a 11/17 deadline for sending him a follow-up action plan for that trade show and, if he had missed my email then to resend it. I scoured my email and IM archives and there was no such communication. I do not miss deadlines. EVER. In fact, several times I've been the only one in sales to comply with them and was then called out on the next dept. call as such. I have no idea what this email is all about, but I can almost guarantee my boss will dodge all my attempts to get him on a phone call and will want everything to be done in IM now.

[astrochex]

Good luck. At least you can still archive IMs for for future reference.

[ossiblue]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

UPDATE

I'm not the paranoid type, but feel like I'm getting set up for a spanking. We went to a trade show in late Oct. and didn't get a whole lot of traffic at our booth. Most of the attendees weren't decision makers, and so weren't great prospects. Around early Nov. my boss said to me on the phone that we need to talk the following week about a follow-up plan for the folks we met at the show and somehow incorporate that into my Q4 goals. Never heard about it again after that.

Friday he sent me a very formal email stating I had missed a 11/17 deadline for sending him a follow-up action plan for that trade show and, if he had missed my email then to resend it. I scoured my email and IM archives and there was no such communication. I do not miss deadlines. EVER. In fact, several times I've been the only one in sales to comply with them and was then called out on the next dept. call as such. I have no idea what this email is all about, but I can almost guarantee my boss will dodge all my attempts to get him on a phone call and will want everything to be done in IM now.

You might reply, using email, and state exactly what you posted here along with either a copy of all email interactions or a statement about them. Emphasize the phone call he made to you and the fact there was never any follow up from him as to a meeting.

It sounds like his intention in the call was for you to get back to him and set up a meeting, sometime during the following week, but that was not clearly stated. As a result, you came away with the understanding that you should expect a contact from him as to when to meet, since he initiated the idea.

Offer the above as an apology to a miscommunication. Without knowing how your boss typically communicates, it's not clear if it was a simple miscommunication or he's setting you up. You'll probably know by the way he responds.

[carambola]

Nothing on topic to add, but why are you putting up with this BS.
If you are good at your job, go somewhere else and bury this guy.
No job is worth losing sleep over

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

UPDATE

I'm not the paranoid type, but feel like I'm getting set up for a spanking. We went to a trade show in late Oct. and didn't get a whole lot of traffic at our booth. Most of the attendees weren't decision makers, and so weren't great prospects. Around early Nov. my boss said to me on the phone that we need to talk the following week about a follow-up plan for the folks we met at the show and somehow incorporate that into my Q4 goals. Never heard about it again after that.

Friday he sent me a very formal email stating I had missed a 11/17 deadline for sending him a follow-up action plan for that trade show and, if he had missed my email then to resend it. I scoured my email and IM archives and there was no such communication. I do not miss deadlines. EVER. In fact, several times I've been the only one in sales to comply with them and was then called out on the next dept. call as such. I have no idea what this email is all about, but I can almost guarantee my boss will dodge all my attempts to get him on a phone call and will want everything to be done in IM now.

Why would he wait two weeks to alert you to a missed deadline?

Two days sure, two weeks, I smell some very old fish.

[Crowbob]

The vibe I'm getting is that you don't trust your boss and you probably shouldn't. He suggested an assignment by phone with no follow up until an accusation in writing that you screwed up.

Apologize, come up with a plan to make things right and start looking for another job.

[Rick Lee]

But I really love this job and suspect my boss is looking to leave. I am in very good with his superiors, and his credibility sank like a stone after that episode in September. My new best friend is the head of HR in Germany. She and I regularly (like daily) email in German about translation stuff I help them out with. If he tries to sandbag me and I really have nothing left to lose, I can go over his head and probably save myself. I wish none of this were necessary, though. I hate playing politics, but, in a place that assigns goals at the end of the quarter and makes them retroactive, it's not exactly like I can focus my efforts on my goal and then say I got there early.

[Rick Lee]

Time for an update and advice welcome.

We're convening in FL this weekend for another trade show. My American (direct) boss will be arriving late Sat. night or early Sun. His/our big boss from Germany will arrive tonight. I arrive Sat. afternoon. I emailed German boss to ask about getting together Sat. night. He wrote back that he definitely wants to do so in advance of my American boss (his underling) arriving. And I'm guessing it's not just because we also talk in German. So I know he is going to ask me some very difficult questions. Not difficult because I have anything to apologize for, but because they will be nearly impossible to answer without bad consequences from my boss later on. We all know it only ever rolls downhill.

Since my last post my boss has been non-communicative, if not downright hostile to me. We have spoken by phone twice in over two months with almost no email. When I have a question, I IM him. If he responds at all, he logs off the second he clicks send, so I can't ask a follow up question, and is then gone for hours. He's offline for almost half the day, almost as if he has a second job. It's to the point that I have to ask others in Germany, Brazil and Canada for help my boss should be helping me with. I suspect this is getting back to his boss. Nothing I can do about it, except perhaps force a phone conversation on him to hash this all out today or tomorrow. And I don't think that will go well for me either.

Am I walking into a buzz saw this weekend? Otherwise, I love this company and everyone else I work with. Best job I've ever had and I'd do it for free, if I didn't need the money.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

Time for an update and advice welcome.

We're convening in FL this weekend for another trade show. My American (direct) boss will be arriving late Sat. night or early Sun. His/our big boss from Germany will arrive tonight. I arrive Sat. afternoon. I emailed German boss to ask about getting together Sat. night. He wrote back that he definitely wants to do so in advance of my American boss (his underling) arriving. And I'm guessing it's not just because we also talk in German. So I know he is going to ask me some very difficult questions. Not difficult because I have anything to apologize for, but because they will be nearly impossible to answer without bad consequences from my boss later on. We all know it only ever rolls downhill.

Since my last post my boss has been non-communicative, if not downright hostile to me. We have spoken by phone twice in over two months with almost no email. When I have a question, I IM him. If he responds at all, he logs off the second he clicks send, so I can't ask a follow up question, and is then gone for hours. He's offline for almost half the day, almost as if he has a second job. It's to the point that I have to ask others in Germany, Brazil and Canada for help my boss should be helping me with. I suspect this is getting back to his boss. Nothing I can do about it, except perhaps force a phone conversation on him to hash this all out today or tomorrow. And I don't think that will go well for me either.

Am I walking into a buzz saw this weekend? Otherwise, I love this company and everyone else I work with. Best job I've ever had and I'd do it for free, if I didn't need the money.

You really have no choice but to be unemotional and factual in communicating with big boss.

As you say, he probably already has some idea of what's going on and covering for your direct boss will just make you look bad and will do nothing to endear you to either boss.

[Gretch]

It is a trap, and it would seem you had a hand in setting it.