When to go over the boss's head?

[Rick Lee]

I want to be a team player and work within the chain of command. This German company created a position for me to do outbound sales in the US because their current US-based sales guy is inbound-only and really only handles renewals. They made him my immediate boss. His boss is the big boss in Germany, whom I met at a trade show and somehow convinced him that I had the go-getter instinct they need here. My German being almost as good as my English helped too.

Since the first interview by Skype back in March, I have never heard from the German boss again, but my US-based boss reports to and speaks with him daily. My boss has absolutely zero sense of urgency and often takes a day or two to respond to my simple requests for "who takes this lead?" or "can you please schedule this GoToMeeting for this demo?" (I don't have access to the account and can't conduct my own demos yet).

Every Friday my boss copies me on a report to his boss showing $0 new sales, 0% of goal for the quarter and a few more goose eggs. At the moment my only job is to find and follow up on leads and get people interested, forward to him and get demos scheduled. I think I've gotten more of them in six weeks than they've had in the last year or longer, though none have closed yet. Every week my boss tells me we're gonna sit down next week and discuss my goals/targets for getting the quarterly bonus. Now we're almost two months into Q3 and this conversation keeps getting kicked down the road.

In a few weeks we're all convening at HQ in Germany. I suspect the German bosses are going to pull me aside for a private chat (in German) about what's going on. My boss doesn't speak a word of German. I am racking my brain on how I can spin anything to not throw my boss under the bus.

I told myself I'd give it one quarter without a commission check or goals before I put my foot down and started making noise. Problem is that I really like this company and job and want to make a career out of it. I've had more than one demo fall through because the prospect's calendar filled up between the time he agreed to the time slot and the two days it took my boss to get around to sending the invites out. I have asked for a paid version of LinkedIn because the 200 free searches I get are used up within the first week of the month. "Yeah, we're looking into that." Right now I use trade show attendee lists, Google, LinkedIn (as much as I can) and my rolodex for prospecting. I'm not getting the tools I need. And I'm starting to wonder if it's intentional. The big boss in Germany wouldn't have created this job for me just to give me a job. But at some point they're going to want to see some ROI and I don't even have access to the paperwork, if a prospect said he was ready to sign today. I think my boss is holding me back. How to address?

[Gretch]

Let him fail on his own.......... palace coups rarely serve the assassin.

[legion]

What has generally worked for me in this kind of situation is to be clear, unambiguous, but at the same time leave some things implied.

Example:

Boss's Boss: Why was this date missed?

Me: The approvals took longer than I anticipated.

(Well, my boss is the only approver, so the implication is that my boss dropped the ball.)

[Neilk]

Nothing to add, but if you are too good at signing up new business, the big bosses may feel that you may be even better at increasing the renewal rate and upselling products. That would not be good for your immediate boss.

[Evans, Marv]

Maybe have a sit down with your boss and lay out your concerns backed up by specifics. Stress to him how you will both benefit by a positive change. If that doesn't help, go to your plan B when the big boss pulls you aside. Lay out your concerns with the same specifics and time tables with potential opportunities missed. If you feel your boss isn't serving his job and yours right, business is business.

[rusnak]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

I want to be a team player and work within the chain of command.

Keep this part in mind. Show loyalty to your boss. If you can't work under your boss, then quit or do something else, but being disloyal is not a good way to make a career.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by Evans, Marv

Maybe have a sit down with your boss and lay out your concerns backed up by specifics. Stress to him how you will both benefit by a positive change. If that doesn't help, go to your plan B when the big boss pulls you aside. Lay out your concerns with the same specifics and time tables with potential opportunities missed. If you feel your boss isn't serving his job and yours right, business is business.

I would definitely start here. At least give the guy a chance to set things straight before you go to the nuclear option. And don't ever go above your boss unless you are either fully confident in the outcome, or willing to leave the job.

BTW, I've been in a very similar situation and ended up leaving. My job was BD and my boss (former regional sales guy) was holding me back to keep it from reflecting badly on his regional sales guys, many of whom were personal friends. Damn shame, because I could have made them a LOT of money.

[stomachmonkey]

Your Boss is not going to change.

You don't want to throw him under the bus even though he's likely to drag you down with him?

If he gets a whiff that he's on slippery ground do you think he's going to take the hit he deserves or throw you under the bus?

I've dealt with plenty of guys like this.

Documentation, documentation, documentation.

Every email, every note, every communication.

You can answer completely honestly without throwing anyone under the bus,

"Why are sales flat Rick?"

Well in Q2 I generated XX leads, I don't do the close so I can't answer fully.

If that becomes a bad result for your boss he did it to himself.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by Evans, Marv

Maybe have a sit down with your boss and lay out your concerns backed up by specifics. Stress to him how you will both benefit by a positive change. If that doesn't help, go to your plan B when the big boss pulls you aside. Lay out your concerns with the same specifics and time tables with potential opportunities missed. If you feel your boss isn't serving his job and yours right, business is business.

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

Your Boss is not going to change.

You don't want to throw him under the bus even though he's likely to drag you down with him?

If he gets a whiff that he's on slippery ground do you think he's going to take the hit he deserves or throw you under the bus?

This is the essential conundrum: Marv and SM are both right.

In this case, I think it is better to go over the bosses head...get rid of one bus.

[unclebilly]

Time to leapfrog. I don't put up with this BS and I'm guess I am the assassin that has been served by a palace coup. Dont wait for the meeting in Germany to point out why you dont have the tools to do your job.

It obvious that the American is afraid of you and is trying to handcuff your success to show you weren't needed. You have the ear of the guy in Germany, he hired you. Use his ear.

Put yourself in the German guy's shoes - how would you feel if you hired a guy to assist and he never told you that he wasn't given the tools he needed to do the job you hired him for?

[masraum]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

Your Boss is not going to change.

You don't want to throw him under the bus even though he's likely to drag you down with him?

If he gets a whiff that he's on slippery ground do you think he's going to take the hit he deserves or throw you under the bus?

I've dealt with plenty of guys like this.

Documentation, documentation, documentation.

Every email, every note, every communication.

You can answer completely honestly without throwing anyone under the bus,

"Why are sales flat Rick?"

Well in Q2 I generated XX leads, I don't do the close so I can't answer fully.

If that becomes a bad result for your boss he did it to himself.

This seems like the way to go to me. Either this guy sucks, or he's intentionally sucking to make you look bad. I don't think going to him will help. It sounds like you have a decent rapport with his boss. I would thoroughly document, and either wait for the big boss to come to you or possibly go directly to the big boss instead.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by unclebilly

Time to leapfrog. I don't put up with this BS and I'm guess I am the assassin that has been served by a palace coup. Dont wait for the meeting in Germany to point out why you dont have the tools to do your job.

It obvious that the American is afraid of you and is trying to handcuff your success to show you weren't needed. You have the era of the guy in Germany, he hired you. Use his ear.

Put yourself in the German guy's shoes - how would you feel if you hired a guy to assist and he never told you that he wasn't given the tools he needed to do the job you hired him for?

This.

[John Rogers]

As mentioned earlier, document, document, document. If you put it on your PC then it is probably going onto a server somewhere and quite possibly the management can get to it. When I was an Oracle DBA I kept EVERYTHING in spiral notebooks and only did digital info when asked or such. I noted every meeting, face to face or any other interaction! As an example I was asked by the boss to do this or that so I would spell it out in an email to that boss and say is this what you want me to do, are your sure. She would always say yes that's it and then I'd save the email to a thumb drive just in case!

[1990C4S]

You can't work 'as is', so what's the risk?

Your boss goes or you go. Help your boss go, grease the skids.

Example #1. Pay for LinkedIn yourself. Submit the expense. If you get reimbursed, good. If not, keep that email as evidence that you know what needs to be done but your boss doesn't.

[Arizona_928]

The question is: is this hill worth dying on?

[matthewb0051]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

I want to be a team player and work within the chain of command.


I am racking my brain on how I can spin anything to not throw my boss under the bus.

Two things:

1. If the big boss is asking you then they know or at least suspect that something is amiss. Just tell the truth, no spin. They will figure out the rest. Also, if you are trying to spin it is likely that they can or will see thru that and think you are a DB.

2. You ARE being a team player if you tell the truth and in doing so it helps the company.

Hope it works out well

[wdfifteen]

First of all, you sound like a fantastic rep. Sales always looked like magic to me, and my hat is off to a man who does it well.
It looks like if you do nothing this job is going to go down the drain by itself and take you with it. If you talk to your boss's boss, you might be able to salvage it. I'd go for it, and I would tacitly shoot for your boss's job.

[Rick Lee]

I'll back up a little.

At my last job 100% of our leads came from going to trade shows and the intense preparation for them weeks beforehand. Weeks before the show I already had a huge Excel sheet of all exhibitors and many attendees I wanted to go meet, often with appointments I had set up.

I met my current employer when they happened to be our booth neighbors. I heard the German and jumped right in. I asked the German boss if so and so was there. He gave me a puzzled look and asked why. I said because that's whom I had emailed and asked for a meeting, but had gotten no response. Turns out he didn't come to the show, but the boss saw I had done my homework. And he saw me running around to every other booth with list in my hand, looking for people. During the downtime I hung with our German neighbors, we talked for hours a day for three days and became friends.

A month later I checked out their website and saw a sales job on their English page. I emailed the boss about it and asked if it was in the US or Germany. He said Germany, but that they'd consider making it US-based for me, asked for a date and time to have a Skype chat with him and his HR lady. That got delayed and delayed. In the meantime, I spent many hours, watching Youtube videos on German job interviews and etiquette. When it finally happened, I had on a suit for my webcam. Boss was in jeans and a hoodie, said they had planned to contact me about that job, but that I got to them first, asked me how much I needed and when I could start. That was it. Didn't even ask for a resume.

During that Skype "interview" he told me that my boss (to be), whom I briefly met at that show, was a great guy, but that he was strictly inbound and would not pick up the phone. My boss has been there five years and is pretty well-entrenched. And he's also very smart, experienced and great on the phone with demos. I truly respect him and envy his abilities. I don't want to even think that I may be better than him or in any way qualified to replace him. I still have a loooonnng way to go to be on top of this product and sales process. But there is no one else I can ask for anything, other than my boss.

The big German boss has twice asked all of us to send him our thoughts on two subjects. Both times I sent long, very well thought-out emails to him only and got no response. So I can't assume I can just call him up or IM him to chat. I'm going to have to be prepared for when we're all together under one roof in a few weeks. I know he had to have talked me up to get the CEO to agree to spend the money and create my position. And he's probably on the hook for some ROI there too. So I know they're going to want to meet the new guy, test my German and ask what's going on.

Oh, and I've never gotten any kind of list of weekly or monthly activity requirements or KPIs. I've simply kept track of everything on an Excel sheet and emailed it to my boss at the end of each Friday. Have-never-received-one-word-of-feedback-on-that. In fact, one week I forgot to send it and still heard nothing. WTF?

[JeremyD]

Dude - what happens if they decide not to invite you to Germany and cut the cord? I've seen that happen.

I would document 3-5 solid examples of stuff you have bird dogged - that you thought had a chance to close and what you think the reason for that it didn't.

There are ways around Linkedin pro - there are other solutions such as zoominfo - I'd make sure you have a solid request and denial documented.

Go from there. I always tell people that going over the bosses head is the nuclear option. Sure it gets results, but the existing landscape becomes uninhabitable for quite a while...

[targa911S]

Originally Posted by Gretch

Let him fail on his own.......... palace coups rarely serve the assassin.

This^^^^^^