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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gretch View Post
It is a trap, and it would seem you had a hand in setting it.
Well, I can't do my job without others' help. I didn't have access to the contract templates I needed for a deal last week. Couldn't reach my boss by any method. What should I have done? Blow the customer off, who has pen in hand or ask others for help and swear them to secrecy not to tell anyone else I needed their help? Boss from Germany was going to want to talk to me anyway, without my having emailed him first. He asked about my boss drunken behavior at his house the last time he had me alone.
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Old 02-15-2018, 09:36 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #61 (permalink)
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I would be honest and not protect your US boss. You either go down with the ship, or you may find yourself at the helm. I would not actively try to take down US boss, but I would not try to save him either. I don't have time to read back on the thread but IIRC this looked like you may have been hired to wear some bigger shoes eventually, especially considering your German background.

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Old 02-15-2018, 09:44 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #62 (permalink)
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When the questions come you are an expert witness with no skin in the game. Just factual, unemotional answers to the best of your ability. The big boss seems to trust you now, no sense sabotaging that relationship.
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Old 02-15-2018, 09:50 AM
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This may appear to be a no-win situation, but you don't know what the big German boss has in mind. He may be ready to hatchet your boss, and give you the position....he just needs a few questions cleared up before any action. All hope is not lost, this may be a good thing for you.
Old 02-15-2018, 09:59 AM
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Be completely forthright and allow the cards to fall where they may. Detach yourself from the outcome, secure in the knowledge that if your boss's job is in jeopardy it has everything to do with his own action or inaction, and little-to-nothing with anything you've said or done. Anything less than complete honesty (professionally and calmly delivered, of course) is a disservice to your customers and to your company.

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Old 02-15-2018, 10:02 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #65 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckelly78z View Post
This may appear to be a no-win situation, but you don't know what the big German boss has in mind. He may be ready to hatchet your boss, and give you the position....he just needs a few questions cleared up before any action. All hope is not lost, this may be a good thing for you.
That would be hard for me to believe. This German boss is almost a Sgt. Schultz type. He's very friendly, kind of goofy and chatty, and I know he really likes and relies on my boss to run ops in the US. I've seen him bring the hammer down on others, but really only other Germans. And even if he were planning such, it would just be so awkward for him to spend four days with both of us, every meal together, working the show floor, non-stop within two feet of each other. Just hard for me to see this happening.
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Old 02-15-2018, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Lee View Post
And even if he were planning such, it would just be so awkward for him to spend four days with both of us, every meal together, working the show floor, non-stop within two feet of each other. Just hard for me to see this happening.
If he's planning on axing your immediate boss he'll see to it quickly, in which case not all of you will be spending four days together.

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Old 02-15-2018, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norm K View Post
If he's planning on axing your immediate boss he'll see to it quickly, in which case not all of you will be spending four days together.

_
Oh no, ain't gonna happen. I'm flying to FL from AZ. Boss is driving from SC and bringing our booth display in his SUV and taking it back home with him.
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Old 02-15-2018, 10:20 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #68 (permalink)
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You need to plan on a conversation w/ your direct boss. He is the one you have an issue with. After that conversation you decide your next course of action. Planning to go over his head without properly communicating and documenting your concerns, IMO is a risky proposition considering you really like the job. In this situation, I would be very tactful concerning how you voice your concerns. I would couch them in broader organizational terms and I certainly would not discuss personal behavior.
Old 02-15-2018, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macroni View Post
Planning to go over his head without properly communicating and documenting your concerns, IMO is a risky proposition considering [B]you really like the job.
I'm not planning to do this at all. It's coming to me. I gave up on the idea long ago, but cannot avoid the questions that are coming. For all I know, my boss could have told his boss I'm a problem. I really don't know, but I'm pretty sure it's not getting resolved before this weekend, where I'm going to be at the mercy of events. I'll be honest, factual and unemotional in my answers, while also trying to convey that I'm a chain of command kind of guy and don't want to remotely appear to be operating outside of proper channels.
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Old 02-15-2018, 10:53 AM
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Then confront your boss with your concerns again......

Good luck w/ your Show.....
Old 02-15-2018, 10:56 AM
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As someone who has led several large divisions, this is the kind of crap that I despise. I never understand the temerity of staff. I always want to hear from the trenches. Just tell the guy what you think. Based on his reaction,you might have to tell him, having said all that, you're in a really awkward situation and would like a reassignment. If he doesn't do sh_t about it, leave while you're still employed so finding a better ecosystem is easier.
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Old 02-15-2018, 11:02 AM
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Interesting set of circumstances.

Here is my limited take:

As others have stated, be unemotional, factual and direct responding to any question from SGT Schultz. Critique politely, offer solutions (I can't believe you do not have access to a contracts template without asking, etc.) and don't criticize...huge difference.

Use this opportunity to offer suggestions, when asked, about how to improve process flows, streamline communications, etc.

Intrigue and roiling endless scenarios in your mind is counterproductive: Anticipate questions, have options, help Schultz help you.

And, as always, be ready t walk away with your head up.

Good luck!
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Old 02-15-2018, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seahawk View Post
(I can't believe you do not have access to a contracts template without asking, etc.)
Actually, I did, but didn't know it at the time and could not reach the boss for clarification. As it was my first time doing it, I really wanted to make sure it was correct. I was almost to the point of just attaching it all to an email from my email program. But we're supposed to send it through our portal and I was having trouble navigating it. My asking others for help may have gotten back to others. I didn't complain or tell anyone, but I know some of the folks I asked have no love lost for my boss and were probably wondering why I had to come to them.
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Old 02-15-2018, 11:22 AM
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Being in technology, having a boss that actually knows what you do is alien to me. Asking my boss for help with a technology issue would yield about the same results as asking my 2 year old.

Every manager I've ever had, even the ones who were once technical, thought my job was way easier than it is. Conversely, I did a job for a year where I basically interviewed people to document risks and typed up word documents. I've never gotten so much praise in my whole career. The job was mind-numbingly easy but all the management I dealt with thought it was super hard.
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Old 02-15-2018, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Lee View Post
Actually, I did, but didn't know it at the time and could not reach the boss for clarification. As it was my first time doing it, I really wanted to make sure it was correct. I was almost to the point of just attaching it all to an email from my email program. But we're supposed to send it through our portal and I was having trouble navigating it. My asking others for help may have gotten back to others. I didn't complain or tell anyone, but I know some of the folks I asked have no love lost for my boss and were probably wondering why I had to come to them.
I just think you have an opportunity here, Rick...it is clear you like what you do and my experience has been that that type of attitude gets noticed.

The other data point I and many others noticed is your US Boss is a bit of a pouter and shuts off communications.

In sales and BD growing a company, that is THE Cardinal Sin. Bad news doesn't get better with age or alcohol.
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Old 02-15-2018, 11:40 AM
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I agree with Paul, stick to the facts and leave emotion out of it. Seems like you are at the point where you are open and honest and let the chips fall where they may.
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Old 02-15-2018, 04:08 PM
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UPDATE

Ok, back from the trip, spent just about every minute of four days with the boss and the big boss. My American boss showed up a few hours after the German boss and I got together. He really wanted to buy some Mountain Dew and Hanes socks (unavailable in Germany), so we Uber'ed to a Target. Not a word about my American boss other than, "How is the cooperation with him?" I casually said we don't talk much, but that's because I feel pretty ramped up and able to do most stuff without calling him.

During the show and after hours the three of us were together every minute except for sleeping, and we drank a LOT of beer (after hours). But no drama, dead air or awkwardness. Maybe a tiny bit, but very minor. They both wanted to have a chat with me by the pool on Wed. and told me to bring a pad and pen to take notes. German boss said it had gotten back to him that I had been calling others for help with things I should have learned in training. American boss immediately owned up to falling short there and asked me for a list of things I need to brush up on and said they'll spend whatever it takes to make things right. I didn't mention to either that I had called others because my boss is usually offline for half the day and hard to reach. No good could have come from that.

American boss had to drive home early Thurs. and so I had alone time until about 3pm that day with the German boss. When we were laying by the pool, he brought up the drunken incident in Germany last summer. It started when he said he'd be having another bbq at his house for us this summer and added in German-accented English, "But with strict drink limits for some people" followed by a belly laugh. He added that his wife told him my American boss was no longer welcome at their house and that HR had been notified immediately the following morning. Obviously, nothing came of that and I didn't press for more info on it.

Anyway, feels kind of like a nothingburger. My American boss made a few cryptic comments like, "You need to know this stuff in case I get hit by a truck." But he gave no indication of being on the way out.
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Old 02-25-2018, 08:06 PM
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Best of luck to ya Rick...sounds like you're doin' just fine in the eyes of the "big boss".... keep on keepin' on !

Last edited by KC911; 02-26-2018 at 03:17 AM..
Old 02-26-2018, 03:10 AM
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American boss is probably on his way out but doesn't know it, yet.
Old 02-26-2018, 05:19 AM
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