When to go over the boss's head?

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by JeremyD

Dude - what happens if they decide not to invite you to Germany and cut the cord? I've seen that happen.

If that were to happen, then I'd obviously be on the fast track out of there. I already have flight and hotel booked and paid for (they handled it all). I'm not worried about that, as I'd 100% know it was over if they reversed everything.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Based on your follow up Rick, I would definitely avoid the nuclear option. Your boss might be a bad boss, but it sounds as if he certainly adds value to the company. Probably not someone that will get fired from your negative feedback. If it were me I would start with talking to my boss directly, and in Germany would be prepared to offer feedback but in a constructive sort of way that won't be construed as throwing your boss under the bus.

[KFC911]

Don't use the nuclear option unless it's the point of no return, and you're prepared to walk out the door. I did it twice, early half of my corporate career....worked out great both times. My tolerance for suffering with fools is next to zero....but they knew that . No need for details, but both times, the morale of my group (IT super techies) was at rock bottom due to the managers in question....I simply told my story to "the man", told him he had a serious problem, not to take my word for it though...ask. First time, the manager wasn't over my group the next day....second time, he was reassigned within two months....I crucified him as I abruptly resigned on the spot after he royally pissed me off (I was an AVP at a now defunct megabank)....I did it for the teammates I left behind however....

Would I do it again? Damn straight....right between the eyes however....a backstabber I am not

[Gretch]

your boss finds out you are going agin' him and you are dead. If you worked for me and pulled that stunt I would cashier you that very instant. Get the delusions of grandeur out of your head and go back to work. Do your job as best you can, keep your integrity and dignity and above all, tend to your own franchise.......... there are other companies and other jobs. Don't let a bad boss suck you into doing something stupid.

The alternative??????

"If you shoot at a king, be sure to kill him..."

As to the SJW above........ yeah, you cannot make mortgage payments with ego cookies. feeling good is worth bupkis. Your wife ever ask you if you had an ego enhancing day at work????????? prolly not, because that is NOT IMPORTANT.............

[KFC911]

^^^^ Not an ego thing at all....

I've gotten out of "the game", but securing another job at a significantly higher salary was never a problem for me....within days .

[unclebilly]

Point the big boss to this thread. You have laid this out quite well. He will offer guidance and direction.

[RKDinOKC]

To me it sounds like big boss likes boss and thinks he does a great job at what he does and has hired you to fill in the gap.

Do NOT say anything bad about him. Had a friend that totally lost his job that he was doing what the previous guy couldn't because he made one derogatory comment. The trusted the previous guy even though he did not know what he was doing.

I would do the best i can within the constraints that have been put on me knowing I could do much better. For example: Schedule those demo/meetings that take the boss longer to approve/provide farther in the future so they can still happen. You should be able to determined there is a time frame he can meets, just not as quickly as you would like it to happen.

Then after showing you can work well within the constraints you are being put under, do proposals on providing you with the tools you need. One at a time. If it not too costly invest in it yourself. If just one gets approved, make it a stellar increase. When they see the results from just one thing you get more credibility with everyone including the boss let alone the bosses boss. Do that a few times and you will have not only all your contraints and problem solved, that boss will see you as someone that worked with him instead of against.

As for the big boss meeting, talk everything up and just mention you are used to more freedoms and prospect tools than you are being given...and be sure to talk up the limiting boss. specifically the things he does that are good and helping you.

Remember, jus because you don't think you are doing well to your standards doesn't mean they don't think you are doing great to theirs.

[porsche4life]

Sounds to me like your boss doesn't want to be a boss, and wants to do his thing and be left alone. Is there any way for you to report directly to der fatherland?

[Rick Lee]

Nuclear ain't an option. I don't have it in me and I like and respect my boss. It's hard to run through the scenarios in my head, because I don't know how anything is going to run when we're all in Germany - break-out sessions, roundtables, one on ones with bosses, training, team building, boozing, I just don't know. Been to Germany 25x, but never did business there, other than working in a factory during college. I just don't know how this company runs.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

Nuclear ain't an option. I don't have it in me and I like and respect my boss. It's hard to run through the scenarios in my head, because I don't know how anything is going to run when we're all in Germany - break-out sessions, roundtables, one on ones with bosses, training, team building, boozing, I just don't know. Been to Germany 25x, but never did business there, other than working in a factory during college. I just don't know how this company runs.

You need to sit down with your boss and tell him EXACTLY what's on your mind Rick, and see what happens imo. He'll either "fix it", or he wont...then the next move is yours...are you ready to move on? If so, what do you have to lose? It's your career man...do what you need to do, or suck it up and kwityerbeotchin'. Seriously though...good luck!!!

[DanielDudley]

Did you tell your boss you think you could close if you had the ability to move in the next day ?

You need to be really clear. I doubt you have anything to lose, because right now it sounds like nothing is really happening anyway.

[rusnak]

Go read Peter Druker's book "The Practice of Management". And until then, just seriously do your job, and don't make waves. They know that they don't need you already. Their equation is to see how you do. If you start to complain and try to change management heirchy before any tangible results, then you are gone. Why in the world would they boot your boss at this point for you? They would not in a million years.

[Mothy]

Originally Posted by porsche4life

Sounds to me like your boss doesn't want to be a boss, and wants to do his thing and be left alone. Is there any way for you to report directly to der fatherland?

This is what I'm thinking - he was probably given the responsibility to look after you because he was their only other guy in the USA.

Talk to him - your best outcome is if you both end up looking good. They already know he is good at his primary job. Even if you can't swing it to get them to have you change to a German reporting line. Remember, you don't need to be in charge to be a leader.

Barn boss v reporting line. Your USA Boss would be better as the first type rather than the second.

[Rick Lee]

Interesting day today. Late Fri. afternoon the boss IM'ed me that he had my goals and to call him this morning. The goals he gave me are about 1/2 to 3/4 of what I've been doing since day one. It's almost like he told me to take it easy and I'll get the full Q3 bonus. I'll have this knocked out by Wed. of each week, even accounting for the two weeks I'll be out in Sept. Of course, I'm going to keep up my current level of activity. But I'm a little nervous about really exerting myself. What if they decide to double everything for Q4 because I easily exceeded it for Q3? Very weird.

[Crowbob]

You're new.

They are observing your performance. I'd be very careful about getting between boss and big boss.

I agree that boss likes his independence. My guess is big boss pushed you on boss and both want to see how much hand-holding you need.

I wouldn't leap-frog yet.

[RKDinOKC]

I will restate what I had said before...

Just because you don't think you are doing well to your standards doesn't mean they don't think you are doing great to theirs.

You stated earlier that your boss was not meeting YOUR deadlines for support. Maybe these relaxed goals compared to your actual performance are his way of telling you to stop pushing him so hard. He may have responsibilities you don't know about is why he isn't meeting YOUR expectations for support.

As valuable as performance is being a team player.

Will add to the recommendation I made earlier. Work within the constraints you are given...without pushing your boss.

Remember, adding you and your position is more work for him than he has been used to doing. Tell him you don't think you will have any problem meeting goals he has set for you and ask if there is anything he feels you can do to make his job easier.

[jcommin]

When to go over the boss's head? The answer is almost never -

[asphaltgambler]

FWIW, I've made that mistake more than once. I ended up falling on the sword.............

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

Interesting day today. Late Fri. afternoon the boss IM'ed me that he had my goals and to call him this morning. The goals he gave me are about 1/2 to 3/4 of what I've been doing since day one. It's almost like he told me to take it easy and I'll get the full Q3 bonus. I'll have this knocked out by Wed. of each week, even accounting for the two weeks I'll be out in Sept. Of course, I'm going to keep up my current level of activity. But I'm a little nervous about really exerting myself. What if they decide to double everything for Q4 because I easily exceeded it for Q3? Very weird.

Maybe your current boss isn't much of a pusher? Or maybe he's one that likes to shelter his people from extreme pressure? Without really knowing him well, you don't fully understand the personal dynamics at play.

The good thing is, sounds like you can easily crush your goals and get your full bonus. That's good for everyone, especially you. Will they ratchet up expectations, maybe so. But that's a good segue into asking your boss for more tools to help you continue growing your numbers. Prove yourself as a high performer and he might be more apt to invest in you and listen to your feedback. Letting your performance do the talking is always the best case scenario.

[VincentVega]

Originally Posted by jcommin

When to go over the boss's head? The answer is almost never -

true that. I learned that lesson, not pretty.