What to do???

[herr_oberst]

Interesting thing about the "PPI" sheet is that the line drawing is a Porsche.

[911 Rod]

Excuse me while I write a check for $35,000, kiss it, fold in 2 and put it in my pocket.
Sorry, but no way I'm doing this deal without seeing the car.
You come here to vent. Why not come here before the purchase and ask for help?
Excuse the venting, but I'm upset for you.

[1990C4S]

Not that I'm a genius, but when I wanted to buy a Porsche cross-country it took me one day to find a Pelican willing to examine the car and drive it for me.

Not that it helps in this case, but for anyone else considering a similar venture this is so easy now, take the time.

I think the OP has made a very fair offer to the seller, I hope he accepts.

Lastly, as a 964 owner, I do not think your car choice was very good for a safe and reliable car. 996? Probably much better all around, and one-half the cost.

[verticalflight]

Seller is not getting back to me at all. I have decided to take a loss on the sale and sell it at a discount while fully explaining all the issues the car has.

Best part is this guy Brad Barker (the seller) claims one of his hobbies is restoring vehicles. Here is a quick list of the issues: (not disclosed)

- front clip replaced
- ABS not working
- AWD not working
- rubber trim installed backwards/upside down
- headliner sagging, quarter windows need to be taken out because the fabric isn't in the trim
- passenger door doesn't open
- motorized tail doesn't go up
- the new shocks are old used ones
- the rebuilt motor used "old parts" for the rebuild and from what we can tell, Japanese screws
- there is a serious dent on the side of the car too, undisclosed, from the accident it appears
- hood latch is barely operable, jimmy'd together
- battery keeps dying, very old
- car won't start right now, might be a relay or fuel issue
- passenger airbag missing
- brakes are dragging
- missing fender liners
- and more!

Thanks Brad! About the Author — B.S. Barker

[verticalflight]

Brad's profile on Pelican here:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/members/217077.html

[stomachmonkey]

Wait, you bought a car from a BS Barker?

I mean the name says it all, he barks bull****.

[quattrorunner]

What a dick

[island911]

Originally Posted by DaveE

A 964 for a 16 year old? Wow.

oh good; it's not just me thinking that.

Originally Posted by Mark Wilson

Is this the one?

1990 Porsche 964 Carrera 4

Thanks. Looks like the seller was forthright about the condition.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Assuming that the buyer actually had a proper PPI done, and not that Jiffy Lube BS already posted, I would say that he at least tried to do his due diligence. In this case as the car was grossly misrepresented I strongly suspect the PPI shop, or at least the mechanic, were in on it. Any competent shop would catch many of those major issues, even if they weren't a Porsche specialty shop.

[javadog]

Originally Posted by island911

oh good; it's not just me thinking that.
Thanks. Looks like the seller was forthright about the condition.

Well, there are some obvious problems. The seller said the ABS was working fine, it's not. The photographs show that the rear wing must be operating, as it's shown in two positions, but the buyer says it doesn't work. There's also quite a disconnect between how well the seller said it ran, and the fact that the buyer saying it won't even start now.

I don't know what private conversations occurred between the buyer and the seller but, even allowing for the buyer not being knowledgeable enough to do his own due diligence, the seller clearly can't stand behind the car that he sold. There's no way that I could represent that car in the way that the seller did. He may be fairly clueless but he should be willing to talk to the buyer. The buyer has been a lot more accommodating than I would've been in the same situation.

Based on the buyers description of how the seller is acting, I would probably invest a few hundred dollars in consulting with an attorney and having the attorney reach out to the buyer, if there are any legal remedies available. I realize that most vehicle sales are of the "as is, where is" nature, but there may be some intentional misrepresentation here. It's one thing to be stupid, it's another thing to lie. We don't know enough facts to know which area we're dealing with.

As for the PPI, it's a good thing the shop is discontinuing that practice. Clearly, they don't have the capability of performing a decent PPI. I would certainly have a conversation to see how friendly the shop and the seller were.

If I were to offer advice to the buyer, it would be to fix all of the issues and let the kid use the car. There's no point in taking a sizable loss just to sell it now, then being no better off in the search for a suitable car. I would not have bought this car for either of my kids, but I don't know this particular kid.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by island911

oh good; it's not just me thinking that.



Thanks. Looks like the seller was forthright about the condition.

Full description:
The 3.6 liter engine was completely rebuilt two months ago by Bob Woodman in Beaufort, SC, who is very well known for his quality. The engine didn’t just receive a top end, but a total overhaul......

OP: the rebuilt motor used "old parts" for the rebuild and from what we can tell, Japanese screws

The suspension has newer Bilstein HDs on all four corners with Eibach springs. ...... The ABS and Diff lock are also functioning, as they should.......

OP: ABS not working....AWD not working ....the new shocks are old used ones
To be fair seller says "newer shocks" not "new" but he wanted to create the impression they were

The pads, rotors, and stainless lines were redone less than 2500 miles ago,
OP: - brakes are dragging

The car doesn’t need many things to be mechanically excellent.
Based on OP's list, it seems it doesn't need "many things" it needs a lot of things


The title is clear, but there’s an accident on the Carfax from an off-road accident. I’ve had the front tub checked out by a professional, and everything is fine, and the car aligned, as it should, on a rack. I have the Carfax to show anyone of the incident.
Front tub checked indicates front end damage that was not structurally significant not "it was so bad the entire front clip was replaced."

The airbags did blow, and replacement bags were mounted; RS bridged.
OP: - passenger airbag missing


It almost seems like everything the seller listed as being touched is an issue.

[recycled sixtie]

If it was me I would never buy a car that I had not seen myself. Getting a Pelican member that lived in the seller's area to check it out first would make sense before travelling to look at it.

As mentioned above going to see a lawyer to get advice should not cost you too much.Further to that a letter from the lawyer stating intentions to take legal action might get him to settle out of court.

The seller will likely continue to do this kind of misrepresentation on other unsuspecting buyers unless he is nailed. Sorry for your loss.

[berettafan]

man I don't want to pile on but red fan is INSTANT DQ for me on a 911. tells a LOT about the cars owner.

I can tell you I would not be here to hurt your feelings if I had been allowed to drive a 911 at 16.

specialty cars are NOT an arena for check writers who aren't filthy rich and anyone expecting a 180k mile chassis to be any kind of reliable is kidding themselves.

OP you were the fool the seller was looking for.

[berettafan]

oh and the seller most certainly should take the car back for purchase price at your shipping expense. and be shunned.

[greglepore]

The airbag and abs are safety issues, seems to me that's a no brainer even in a far away state. The advice about lawyers though is spot on - unless a Pelican brother in SC is willing to step up and help out sorta pro bono its not likely to pay. OTOH, if you can prove that he actually knew about the abs and the airbag (and maybe the awd) you might get punative damages. The other stuff is pretty blatant salesmanship, but carefully worded enough to likely pass. But as it is, I'd consider the car defective. Of course, my 911 has neither abs nor airbags, but I didn't buy it for a 16 year old.

[matthewb0051]

Quoted from the seller's add:

"With its history, I know it's not for everyone, but it is most likely the cheapest Coupe you will find for sale,"

It is a sly way of saying this may be a POS so be forewarned.

The add is all over the place as to condition. In parts its trying to minimalize issues and sell sell sell; then in other parts trying for full disclosure.

The 2 things that get me most are ABS and Airbags. I've looked up whether its illegal to sell a car with a knowing airbag fault or missing. No definitive answer, so OP should contact an attorney in the state from which it was sold. These are safety issues and potentially the best areas for legal recourse with the seller. Maybe work out a deal to get $$ to have those two fixed since he clearly represented that they worked properly or in the case of the airbag that it was replaced.

I agree with Javadog. Fix this one and let the kid drive it UNLESS it is unsafe. No reason to take a loss just to spend more.

[matthewb0051]

Here is some history on the car:

964 died while driving

90 964 c4-blown motor... sell car as-is price

1990 Porsche 964 Carrera 4 white/black

[1990C4S]

OP: How does the AWD 'not work'? As I understand it the 964 AWD drives, or does not drive...and it is typically pretty reliable.

[island911]

When I read the car ad I read nothing but Here is a car that has been through a lot, messed with a lot. Of course I read between the lines a lot.

Originally Posted by javadog

...

If I were to offer advice to the buyer, it would be to fix all of the issues and let the kid use the car. There's no point in taking a sizable loss just to sell it now, then being no better off in the search for a suitable car. I would not have bought this car for either of my kids, but I don't know this particular kid.

Yeah, I would let the kid fix it. Children with no investment in a gift end up... Well, I'll just say, when I was 16, dropping a motor to replace a clutch, or some such, was no big deal. IOW, I benefited greatly by having to learn how to fix things.

And if the goal is a reliable car... buy the kid a Honda.

[matthewb0051]

From the 2015 for sale add:

"Back in 2002, there was an off-road front end accident (carfax). The owner at the time drove into a wall in his parking garage at work. "

And more importantly this:

"RS airbag delete kit and properly bypassed with genuine RS bridge. "