Are we not talking about the way cool new Tesla lorry and Roadster?

[Por_sha911]

Remember that if an EV has a range of 200 miles that means you can only travel 75-85 miles away from home since you need power to get back and a margin for error or a detour.

[legion]

Originally Posted by Por_sha911

Remember that if an EV has a range of 200 miles that means you can only travel 75-85 miles away from home since you need power to get back and a margin for error or a detour.

Well, that's only if you aren't running the air..or heat...or listening to the radio...or have the headlights on. God forbid you need to drive 150 miles on a muggy summer night and you need the radio to keep you awake and alert.

[1990C4S]

The pending changes in our energy infrastructure resulting from 'battery cost and capacity' appear to be eluding a lot of people here.

It goes way beyond cars. Only the timeline is in doubt, not the outcome.

[island911]

We Generate our electricity from OTHER sources of power.

Batteries are simply a VERY expensive "fuel tank" for power that has been generated from other sources.

[Por_sha911]

Originally Posted by 1990C4S

The pending changes in our energy infrastructure resulting from 'battery cost and capacity' appear to be eluding a lot of people here.
It goes way beyond cars. Only the timeline is in doubt, not the outcome.

All that "pending changes" are theoretical and about as reliable as Elon Musk production estimates. What's eluding you is that these supposed pending changes will cost big buck to do and YOU will be paying for the equipment, retooling, and system upgrades.
As an example, back around 1970 LILCO promised cheaper power once they built a nuclear plant on Long Island NY. Instead, the LILCO customers had 3% rate increase for 30 years to fund the building and decommissioning of the plant but the power rate never went down one penny.
The promised rate reductions you are wishing for is akin to "I will still respect you in the morning" or, for the USA folks, “If you like your (health care) plan, you can keep your plan,”.

[Por_sha911]

Tesla accused of 'bait and switch' on Model 3 upholstery | Fox News

[Holger]

Anyone surprised?

[island911]

Will the Roadster have "Autopilot" ?

and will it seek out big red fire trucks?



Yikes.

[legion]

Clearly the Tesla had a BAL of .05.

Edit: I found the driver:

[sc_rufctr]

Originally Posted by island911

We Generate our electricity from OTHER sources of power.

Batteries are simply a VERY expensive "fuel tank" for power that has been generated from other sources.

... and they don't last forever regardless of the advertising hype. How many charges before the batteries get tired?

These cares will be true "appliances". I can't see how it would make any sense to keep one longer than 5 years.
That's not a bad thing if you know that going in but don't kid yourself, they'll be just as expensive as owning any gas car in the end. (probably more)

It will be interesting to see what actually happens in the real world.

Having said all that. I think it's only a matter of time before most of us will own a plug in electric car.
And I can't wait to see what MB & Porsche comes up with.

I like how Tesla has pushed the rest of them along.

[legion]

Another of Musk's promises recounted as the vaporware it always was...

https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/01/29/steve-wozniak-i-dont-believe-anything-elon-musk-or-tesla-says/

It’s no shocker that Apple co-founder Steve Wozniak is wary of Elon Musk and Tesla — he once said there is*“way too much hype”*around the company.

At a conference in Sweden last week, Wozniak, who owns two Model S vehicles, doubled down on his Tesla criticism — while still leaving an opening for future optimism.

“Now, I don’t believe anything Elon Musk or Tesla says,” Wozniak said. “But I still love the car.”

In his talk about Tesla, Wozniak recounted one incident at Lake Tahoe, where his Tesla skidded off an icy road and fell into a snow bank,*according to Business Insider, which reported on the Q&A with Wozniak. Despite the accident, Wozniak said he maintained his trust for Tesla, upgrading his model when Tesla introduced the feature that allows Tesla owners to “summon” their self-driving vehicles.

He also bought into Musk’s promise that the car would be able to drive itself across the United States by the end of 2016. But after Tesla broke up with the Israel company that developed sensors for Tesla and Musk’s promise wasn’t realized, his trust was damaged, said Wozniak.

“I’m sure the next car will come out and Elon’s promise will be that (this is the car that delivers),” said Wozniak, with author Seth Godin moderating the talk.

Wozniak also took shots at the state of Tesla’s current state of self-driving technology. He said longtime car manufacturers such as Audi and BMW are ahead of Tesla in the race for self-driving cars.

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by sc_rufctr

Having said all that. I think it's only a matter of time before most of us will own a plug in electric car.
And I can't wait to see what MB & Porsche comes up with.

I like how Tesla has pushed the rest of them along.

The new all electric Porsche looks cool. I just wonder how much the German vehicles will cost without the billions of tax subsidies Tesla received. They will have to be priced competitively, at least within the market price range.

Zero doubt, every major manufacturer world wide will be bringing out an plug in electric, and hybrids. There is a place for both, just not in my garage.

[island911]

TO be clear, the ONLY competitive advantage of electric cars is found in the bureaucratic cost of petrol cars.

That is, with the CAFE standards ever tightening, the sales of electric cars buy the manufacturers bureaucratic credits. But on their own, electric cars are much less efficient machines to manufacture. --electric cars consume massive resources to build, and then use motive power often generated by carbon-based fuels. This is essentially gaming the CAFE standards; laundering the massive inefficiencies.

[kach22i]

In related news, the competition is gearing up, I mean charging up.

Cummins acquires Johnson Matthey’s automotive battery business
Posted February 12, 2018
https://chargedevs.com/newswire/cummins-acquires-johnson-mattheys-automotive-battery-business/

Engine builder Cummins has acquired Johnson Matthey’s UK automotive battery systems business, a subsidiary that specializes in high-voltage battery systems for electric and hybrid vehicles. Cummins and Johnson Matthey also agreed to collaborate on the development of battery materials for commercial heavy-duty applications.

Last October, Cummins acquired Brammo, which is known for designing and developing low-voltage battery packs. The addition of Johnson Matthey’s high-voltage battery expertise gives Cummins capabilities across the entire range of energy storage options.

SEE ALSO: Cummins unveils electric Class 7 truck

[Por_sha911]

Originally Posted by island911

TO be clear, the ONLY competitive advantage of electric cars is found in the bureaucratic cost of petrol cars.

AND the massive amount of money the feds throw at you to buy one. When that well runs dry it will be game over.

[kach22i]

Yea, oil isn't subsidized.

https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2017/10/6/16428458/us-energy-subsidies

Most energy subsidies go not to renewables but to producing more of the dirty stuff.

[Ferraripete]

Originally Posted by sc_rufctr

... and they don't last forever regardless of the advertising hype. How many charges before the batteries get tired?

These cares will be true "appliances". I can't see how it would make any sense to keep one longer than 5 years.
That's not a bad thing if you know that going in but don't kid yourself, they'll be just as expensive as owning any gas car in the end. (probably more)

It will be interesting to see what actually happens in the real world.

Having said all that. I think it's only a matter of time before most of us will own a plug in electric car.
And I can't wait to see what MB & Porsche comes up with.

I like how Tesla has pushed the rest of them along.

lg chem batt technology will allow for approx. 3600 full discharges for the life of the batt.

[legion]

Being taxed less ≠ subsidized.

Imagine if every day I punch you in the stomach and take $10 from your wallet. Then I give $5 to a friend. I do this every day for years. Then one day I only take $8, I still give my friend $5, and he screams: "No fair! You're GIVING him money!"

[Eric Coffey]

Originally Posted by legion

Being taxed less ≠ subsided.

Imagine if every day I punch you in the stomach and take $10 from your wallet. Then I give $5 to a friend. I do this every day for years. Then one day I only take $8, I still give my friend $5, and he screams: "No fair! You're GIVING him money!"

You are wasting your breath. I've tried to explain this to him (and the others here who think "big oil" takes more subsidies than renewables) several times. They are simply uninformed and apparently like to stay that way.

Botom line: Renewables as a whole get WAY more in direct (cash) AND indirect (tax) subsidies than "big oil" has ever received. They also seem to forget that "big oil" actually pays taxes, to the tune of billions of dollars.

[motion]

Some very interesting ramblings. There's a nice video on this page, worth watching:

https://www.engadget.com/2018/03/11/the-church-of-elon-musk/

If social is the big "thing" today, it appears that AI might be the big thing tomorrow. I'd like to delve into it more. Seems fascinating.

Musk rambles on about government on Mars, too. Something for everyone

Does he ever sleep?