Are we not talking about the way cool new Tesla lorry and Roadster?

[Holger]

Tesla on my companys parking lot.
The trunk is not closing correctly, the door handles are not pulled back.



Someone mentioned the first iPhone. Yes, but Tesla is not a newbie anymore. And I dont want to get used to this bad quality.

[svandamme]

how old is that one?
I could understand that from the 2012-2013 models
To a lesser extend from the 2014-2016 models.

But 2017 and 2018 should have at least seen some benefit from 5 model years worth of Quality Control feedback into the production lines...

[Holger]

This one is about 6 months old.

[svandamme]

So they are ugly on the outside
ugly on the inside
and poorly made

[legion]

Originally Posted by svandamme

So they are ugly on the outside
ugly on the inside
and poorly made

You forgot expensive and heavily subsidized.

[GH85Carrera]

Well, the self driving cars are now killers!

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/19/technology/uber-driverless-fatality.html

[Por_sha911]

NTSB to probe fiery Tesla crash in California | Fox News

[legion]

I wonder how many new products Tesla has to roll out this week?

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/27/moodys-downgrades-tesla-credit-rating-on-model-3-production-delays.html

Moody's downgraded Tesla's credit ratings Tuesday and changed its outlook to negative from stable, citing "significant shortfall" in the Model 3 production rate and a tight financial situation.

The credit ratings agency also said the electric car maker will likely need to raise more money in the near future to meet its cash needs and maintain its expected pace of expansion.

Moody's lowered its corporate family rating on Tesla to B3 from B2 and downgraded its rating on the company's senior notes to Caa1 from B3. The speculative grade liquidity rating was cut to SGL-4 from SGL-3.

Tesla declined to comment on the Moody's downgrade. S&P has a negative B rating on Tesla and a negative outlook, as of April 2017.

Tesla shares fell 2 percent in premarket trading Wednesday.

I suspect the fact that Tesla can no longer expect to be bailed out to ensure its survival is probably a prime concern.

[legion]

Funny, Musk got a new pay package right before the bond downgrade. Coincidence?

New Tesla pay package could make Elon Musk the richest man alive - Mar. 21, 2018

[red-beard]

https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/tesla-recalls-123-000-model-s-cars-over-bolt-issue-1522361482

[svandamme]

2012-04/2016 is only 123 000 cars???

let's take 100 grand average selling price = 12 300 000 000 over 4 years.
deduct R&D costs
materials
energy required to build
37,543 employees ( low estimate 50K a year average cost) = 1 877 150 000 / year
distribution cost
after sales service

Sure it improved since
Q1 2017 25000
Q2 2017 22000
Q3 2017 26150
Q4 2017 29870
Total 103020 in 2017, sure it's better then all pre 2016
But 12 billion revenue for that many cars... No wonder they are loosing 2 billion a year.

Why would anybody invest if they can only make and sell 250 cars a day? after 5 years.
And with bad build quality.

Once the big car manufacturers kick EV into high gear, Tesla will collapse onto it's own pile of debt.

[sc_rufctr]

If this happens Tesla has two years to get its act together.

https://electrek.co/2018/01/15/vw-all-electric-car-platform-produced-us-2020/

They're not messing around.

https://electrek.co/2018/01/31/vw-electric-car-production-zwickau-factory/

[sc_rufctr]

[mreid]

Tesla has known about the power steering problem for a while, yet waited until after the market closed for the quarter to make it public. If you don’t think this was deliberate or don’t think Tesla is in real trouble (not due to the recall, that’s a blip), you are not paying attention. I sold all of my Tesla stock last November. I attribute those continuing to ignore all of the blatant signs of failure to the same head in the sand thinking some people had in 2007 about the housing bubble.

IMO, Musk’s best move right now is to sell the company to the highest bidder...assuming there are any. Of course, my advice is worth what you paid for it.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by mreid

IMO, Musk’s best move right now is to sell the company to the highest bidder...assuming there are any. Of course, my advice is worth what you paid for it.

The stock is still too highly valued, more than GM! I believe this is due to there being only a small amount on the open market. But that can cut both ways! If even small groups dump the stock, it could crash it.

[legion]

I also think buying Tesla outright would be a trap. I think the media has given Musk a pass on serious issues because he's an "innovator" or whatever. (And he donates to the right candidates and ascribes to the right causes to keep the media sated.) I doubt the next owners would be afforded that luxury. They'd essentially be buying mountains of blame, at outrageously inflated prices.

Imagine if GM bought Tesla. Let's ignore for a second how they would get the money to make that happen as Tesla is valued at way more than GM. Every new problem that props up the media would paint as GM's fault. There'd probably be a slew of announcements shortly after acquisition--as GM would feel compelled to report things within legally-mandated timeframes. The media would probably paint the whole thing as "GM destroyed Tesla", even if all of the issues predated GM's acquisition.

One good thing that may come from Tesla, after it fails, is that it may finally kill these kinds of subsidies for a generation. (Well, one can hope.) At the very least, it will finally stop the subsidies.

[island911]

Originally Posted by mreid

...
IMO, Musk’s best move right now is to sell the company to the highest bidder....

Or... He could just give it away, like he did with Tesla's (the car co's) patents.

Originally Posted by legion

... I think the media has given Musk a pass on serious issues because he's an "innovator" or whatever. (And he donates to the right candidates and ascribes to the right causes to keep the media sated.) ....

Yeah, I think he's getting wobbly there too.




But perhaps I'm underestimating the press' ability to stay with a good con Story.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by island911

But perhaps I'm underestimating the press' ability to stay with a good con Story.

He didn't even try to send a car to Mars. Perhaps memegenerator.net could try to keep up with the story.

[Eric Coffey]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

He didn't even try to send a car to Mars. Perhaps memegenerator.net could try to keep up with the story.

You are right. It wasn't even that noble. AFAIK, it was just a test launch with a "dummy" payload consisting of one of his roadsters, now tumbling aimlessly through the cosmos...

[island911]

Seriously Patric, that's the hair you're going to split?

While I posted that to reflect some other's reaction to Musk, I do remember reading how on such & such date the car will pass mars... And thinking, Mars already has an electric car. It's been driving around and sending back pictures for years.

Now if I made that 'meme' it would talk about the use of rocket fuel to decelerate rockets on a planet with thick coughCHUTEcough atmosphere. That was cool as hell to watch, but not exactly the most energy efficient way of doing things. Of course, half a century ago, when NASA landed that way on the moon, they didn't have much choice on method.

The bigger point here is that Tesla is NOT a 'green' company. Electric cars are NOT some panacea ..