Did I miss Amazon and Uber being reliant on my money to stay afloat? Amazon btw has turned a profit for 10 straight quarters now, and Uber would be profitable if they would quit pissing money away on trying to build their own autonomous cars and aircraft. A worthy cause, but they may sink themselves first.

I suspect you're right but...

Musk is building a battery storage facility in Jamestown South Australia.
Embarrassingly our local politicians treated him like Rock Star. Even our news service described him as a real life "Tony Stark". :rolleyes:

Elon Musk: Tesla reaches halfway point of construction on 'world's biggest' battery - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Here he is shaking hands with our State Premier Jay Weatherill.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1511626017.jpg

Are you kidding........ Amazon gets paid for everything they build...... can't wait to see what they get paid for their new headquarters...... Uber the least ethical company out there..... losing Billions......

You can't see Musk's other hand because he is holding the State Premier's wallet.

OTR trucks seem like they could really benefit for electric assist motors. Full electric seems like a reach. Something to help get them up highway hills/mountains and when idling around loading/unloading locations.

Something like this:

Hybrid Electric-Drive Trailer Tandem Promises Quick Payback - Articles - Fuel Smarts - Articles - TruckingInfo.com

Or... they could simply make special roads with minimal grades, and of course diesel-electric systems... maybe because the roads are special, the trucks could be even longer than semi's... we could even put on special high efficiency wheels on high efficiency rails. :cool:

Huh? Amazon doesn’t build anything. Uber is a service company. How are my tax dollars propping up either of these two companies?

Pa. tax break offer for Amazon to top $1 billion, Philly-area business group head says


Kidding me right...... and that is BILLION.

Here is another......

Amazon receives $61 million in subsidies to open up a fulfillment center in South Carolina, one of the dozens of such deals.

Totally different and you know it. Those are examples of state dollars being spent to recruit jobs and tax revenue to their cities. PA giving tax breaks to Amazon doesn’t impact me in KS in any way. Tesla has utilized billions in federal dollars to stay afloat.

Edgerton, KS

At least $1,800,000

• Total value of abatement not disclosed
• $1.8 million from the state Department of Transportation for special infrastructure


I do not see the difference maybe I am naive..... both are subsidies...

Great, how many jobs? How much tax revenue? What is the positive economic impact to the community? Better try sharing the entire story if you are passionate enough about your argument to research it.

Again..... please.......

Deflect when you don’t have another data point? That Amazon center, btw, is in a rural area outside of KC. I suspect the economic impact to the local economy is huge because there are no other large employers outside of driving to KC.

Matt... I hear you but you could argue Tesla is creating jobs (33,000) while developing tech which could assist the US in maintaining energy independence. My point is it is easy to make Tesla into a villainous enterprise. No more than others we have chosen to embrace.....

This is the slippery slope that leads to stadiums being funded by goernments, gifts to profitable companies, free electricity, tax breaks, etc.

Who makes the decision? Who provides the numbers? Tesla is one of many.

KS is the last state that should be giving tax breaks. Brownback's experiment with dramatically cutting taxes was a huge failure.

Don't have a number but many of the tax breaks that Tesla gets are the exact same kind that GE, Amazon, sports stadiums, etc. get.

The selective outrage of uninformed voters is dispiriting. We get the government we deserve. Each side is expert at pushing buttons to get votes. And folks buy it hook, line and sinker. Why do some basic research when you've been told what to think. From your side. Politicians don't lie.

As has been said, cities and states do it all the tme. They give out incentives to get local jobs and the taxes those workers pay. (Sales/property)

Goodyear has it's flagship plant in Lawton, Ok. Since the 1978 startt up they have been givin nearly 100 million in various incentives, less than 2.5 million a year, on avg.

For that 2.5 million they get 2500 well paid workers that wiill pay somewhere around 5 million in city/state taxes (@ 2000/year).

That doesn't take into account all of the secondary jobs that support the plant.

The 100 million was a bargain.

The tax breaks weren’t the problem. KS has lost thousands of jobs over the last decade due to their higher than average taxes, many in my industry of aerospace. The problem is that the tax breaks were not accompanied by commensurate cuts in spending, because as usual all politicians object to anything that might impact their constituents. In this case entitlements to their voters. A good friend of mine is in legislative post audit, the stories he tells me about wasteful spending being ignored by the legislature are staggering.

It all comes down to what activities we, as a country, want to encourage.
Certainly China has been encouraging the hell out of technology.
Meanwhile we encourage games, with monumental stadiums built for over-paid ingrates looking to make 'political' (brand awareness) moves.

Meanwhile, our politicians pick pet "tech" projects that will funnel money -I mean donations- back to them. Solar One, Solyndra, Tesla...

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/mHhZ9jk-DrU" frameborder="0" gesture="media" allow="encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

yeah well, I'll take the 911R and run circles around that Tesla in the twisties
and then distance myself when it's battery runs out.

Thanks Peter. That's a very informative vid. --ridiculously fast to 120, once; and after "Easter-Egg" buried menu setting. ... hot / cold /wait ... sickening ride quality.... But at least it's ridiculously expensive.

I could get past the first few minutes. Lousy video.

I recently read in Excellence that a Cayenne Hybrid owner is stuck without his car for months because it needs a part for the air conditioning system and the car is setup to not run if the AC isn't working. I wonder if this is the case for all EV's or just Porsche.

What, you didn't like the press and hold this touch-menu Easter egg for 5 seconds, read the wear warning and then WAIT for "Ludicrous Mode to condition the batteries" ?

Too sporty for you?

What would a bottle of Nitrous do for that 911R ?

Would it also need a touch-screen to activate?

Would it need a cool down period after burst?

Speaking of burst, I have a Tesla bubble to tell you about... :cool:

So, you could run with it for a minute or so, what would you do with the rest of your time?

By the time the NASCAR bend came up, the brake pedal returned slightly, but by the exit of Snake, about 40 seconds into the lap, the 5010-pound P85D entered a reduced power mode (roughly half of the max). Up to that point, it was on pace with the Dodge Charger SRT Hellcat’s 3:03.5 lap but ended up with a 3:17.4, matching the heaviest vehicle we’ve ever driven here, the 5317-pound 2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT8.

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/tesla-model-s-p85d-at-lightning-lap-2016-feature

Show me a Tesla ahead at the finishing lap of 24 hours du Mans.
Then you have a point.

My own personal record drive, was 1850 km, last summer
depart at 01h45
I was at back home at 20h00
don't ask what or why or how sensible.

But I had 2 hours onsite and 2 hours napping in that time frame.
You do the maths how long you'll need to do that in a Tesla.

I wasn't even in a Porsche, the **** Merc i had wouldn't go past 190kph..

anything that looks like a fat pig suv can never be truly effective as an EV.
Weight kills autonomy
brick like aerodynamics do too.
batteries are heavy

EV's should look more like the original tesla roadster then they should look like Pepperwagons

I like those... they just never made many and went with the fat saloons instead.
just goes to show, they make what people want, not, what makes sense.

the company runs on marketing(and subsidies), not realistic physics

I've only seen 1 Roadster in my life.. 1000 made or so?

Most people drive around in their cars , alone
So why do most car manufaturers make cars huge cars?


Even combustion engine cars are TOO big.
My first Bmw 118D was nice, it was small
second one was 10 cm bigger in every way.
why? I still only drive it alone.

the current 3 series is bigger then the original 7 series.

You nailed the biggest problem that I have with an EV and current tech. I have on many occasions driven over 1,000 miles in the span of one day. Stops for gas and food then back at it. With an EV I not only have to plan my route around charging stations, but also have to allow hours for charge time. Is that every day, of course not. But I want that flexibility in my cars.

Today in our BMW X5; Did 650 miles from Columbia SC to Phila PA.... 10 hrs, .5hr stop for the missus....... 19 gallons of diesel w/ 150 miles of range left in the tank.... luxury, space for a family, tons of torque.....

Electric range limits EVs to urban transport they just are not efficient on the highway beyond 300 miles....

For one of those tractor trailers, it takes 1.6 MWs to replenish 400 miles of battery in 30 minutes. Sounds good...to NRG and companies who own natural gas power plants. Goodluck doing that with solar.

Um, I was agreeing with you here. It sounds like the Tesla would run for 40-60 seconds on full boil on a back road (or trick in the link I provided) before it goes to reduced power mode so you in your 911, Cayman, Miata, or whatever will have the rest of the trip to yourself. The new roadster may run a short bit longer, but either way it is a short trip.

If Brock Yates were still alive, maybe he could resurrect the Cannonball Baker race for full electrics only.

For the record, I am glad there are early adopters. If I needed another car I would get something like a Leaf for my commute. As long as I didn't go anywhere after work in the winter I would be just fine. Once we get to 10 minutes for a full charge and 250-300 mile range in the winter I think they will be ready for prime time.

Like it or not the electric car is here... In 5 years time 1/3 of the cars on the road will be electric. 10 years? More than half.

I'm already seeing a Tesla a day in little old Adelaide.

So the Tesla makes a couple of runs, has to cool off. The 911 can do 100 - 0-150 runs in the time the Tesla does a few.

No doubt, electric and hybrids are here. All electric cars are fine for city commuting. As other have mentioned, long distance is never going to happen.

I have done 900 miles in a day on 6 different occasions in my 32 year old 911. I was not tired and could go further but I was at a good stopping point. That Tesla will be recycled into to other things long before the year 2050. My 911 may still be running as an antique.

I have little doubt that in 20 years autonomous all electric cars will be on the road. I will use a Uber like app, call for a ride, and an car will show up, take me there. When I am ready to come home use the app, another car shows up and takes me home. I will not need to own a car. I will however own a car for as long as I am able to drive myself safely.