Electrical question for the brain trust

[wdfifteen]

Mrs WD wants black outlets and covers in the new kitchen. I HATE tamper resistant (IOW use resistant) outlets. The only round black outlets I can find without the tamper resistant defect are 20 amp. The circuit is wired with 12 ga wire and has a 15 amp breaker in the box. Will installing 20 amp outlets cause a problem down the road? Worst case as far as I can see is maybe someone will plug in something big and trip the breaker.
What say you?

[dad911]

Try Home depot, Model # CR15-E Internet #301387040 ?

[dyount]

If it's in the kitchen it's required to be 20A circuit GFCI protected. If the work is being inspected the receptacles would be required to be tamperproof unless they are 5'6" above the floor.

The recpt type and wire size don't matter , the breaker does. I'm not cool with 15A to a kitchen space. Appliances such as bread makers,toasters,coffee makers, griddles when on the same circuit get you over 15 in a hurry.

[fintstone]

While it will work fine, it will not be to code. 12G wire is fine for 20A (14 is not)...but you need to change the breaker. I would upgrade both at the same time.

[red-beard]

If the issue is to "hide" the outlets, try looking to mount outlet strips under the cabinets. About 20 years ago, I had my kitchen re-done and I hated the idea of putting outlets on the beautiful walls. I had my contractor install both under cabinet lighting and under cabinet outlet strips. When we had our kitchen here redone, I did the same thing.

[cabmandone]

The 20a will be fine on a 15a. circuit. If you have an overload situation the breaker will trip before things meltdown. As long as the wiring and breaker is sized appropriately for the circuit I wouldn't hesitate to put the 20a. receptacles in.

"Worst case as far as I can see is maybe someone will plug in something big and trip the breaker."
You hit the nail on the head. It's the breaker that matters. You don't want a 20a breaker on wire that's only good for 15 amps. The wire could potentially meltdown before the breaker would trip.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by dad911

Try Home depot, Model # CR15-E Internet #301387040 ?

Man, I was all over Lowes, Menards, and Home Depot's sites and I did not find that. It is just what I'm looking for. Thanks!

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by red-beard

If the issue is to "hide" the outlets, try looking to mount outlet strips under the cabinets. About 20 years ago, I had my kitchen re-done and I hated the idea of putting outlets on the beautiful walls. I had my contractor install both under cabinet lighting and under cabinet outlet strips. When we had our kitchen here redone, I did the same thing.

Sounds interesting, but this is a remodel and there are already several switch, outlet, and combo boxes in the walls. I do NOT want to rewire the whole kitchen, just move a couple of switches and turn everything black to match the new tile.

I don't care about code, I just don't want tthose damn tamper proof outlets.

Now to find some 3/8 box extenders.

[dad911]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

.....

Now to find some 3/8 box extenders.

for tile? we use these: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Electrical-Box-Extender-BE1-2/202708650

[Tobra]

You don't care about code until you want to sell.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by dad911

for tile? we use these: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Electrical-Box-Extender-BE1-2/202708650

That looks like it. Thanks. I looked it up and they do makes them in 4 gang size, so it looks like I’ll be good. Our tile guy recommended little spacers that go under the screws but they look pretty flimsy to me. I like these things better.

[Baz]

[bickyd]

Kitchen circuits. No more than two receptacles to a circuit. 20 amp. 12 ga. wire. minimum 4 receptacles. Within 1 meter of sink is GFCI. Kitchen receptacles do not need to be arc fault. Tamper proof is not required if the appliance is plugged in and receptacle is considered inaccessible. If you do not care about code, then you should consider cancelling your fire insurance. Do not paint your receptacles and believe me or not, in the long run , it is cheaper to do it right.

[T77911S]

Originally Posted by cabmando

The 20a will be fine on a 15a. circuit. If you have an overload situation the breaker will trip before things meltdown. As long as the wiring and breaker is sized appropriately for the circuit I wouldn't hesitate to put the 20a. receptacles in.

"Worst case as far as I can see is maybe someone will plug in something big and trip the breaker."
You hit the nail on the head. It's the breaker that matters. You don't want a 20a breaker on wire that's only good for 15 amps. The wire could potentially meltdown before the breaker would trip.

you are right but also wrong as is someone else above.

its the WIRE size AND breaker size that matter.

the breaker goes with the wire size. you can have a 15a brkr on 12ga wire.
you can NOT have a 20a brkr on 14ga wire

you CAN NOT (or should not) put a 20a OUTLET on 14ga wire with a 15 or 20a brkr
this case the outlet matches the wire size.


just remember, the breaker is there to protect the wiring, nothing else. the outlet limits you from connecting a single load that pulls more current than the WIRE can deliver.

I prefer to run 12g with 20a outlets as the outlets are a bit beefier.
not an electrician btw.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by bickyd

If you do not care about code, then you should consider cancelling your fire insurance.

Really? What is the fire hazard of tamper proof vs non- tamper proof receptacles above a kitchen counter?

[bickyd]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

Sounds interesting, but this is a remodel and there are already several switch, outlet, and combo boxes in the walls. I do NOT want to rewire the whole kitchen, just move a couple of switches and turn everything black to match the new tile.

I don't care about code, I just don't want tthose damn tamper proof outlets.

Now to find some 3/8 box extenders.

It is in reference to "I don't care about code" which implies you may not follow code. Primarily, your safety is my concern but resale of your home will be affected when an inspector finds discrepancies in your electrical. It is responsible and cheaper to do it right while you have the walls open rather to have to fix once finished. Again, Its you and your families safety. As I have said in a previous post of yours , others will read this and think its ok to install electrical devices as they see fit to alleviate nuisance or cost.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by bickyd

Kitchen circuits. No more than two receptacles to a circuit. 20 amp. 12 ga. wire. minimum 4 receptacles. Within 1 meter of sink is GFCI. Kitchen receptacles do not need to be arc fault. Tamper proof is not required if the appliance is plugged in and receptacle is considered inaccessible. If you do not care about code, then you should consider cancelling your fire insurance. Do not paint your receptacles and believe me or not, in the long run , it is cheaper to do it right.

Not even close to the 2014 NEC. Or the 2011 version. IN the USA. You may be under another code.

[bickyd]

Originally Posted by Zeke

Not even close to the 2014 NEC. Or the 2011 version. IN the USA. You may be under another code.

The CEC follows the NEC and I am quoting the 2015 Canadian Electrical Code. The 2018 code book is just now being issued. Regardless of which code, protection is the focus of my statement and I am reinforcing the importance of qualified installers. Not to derail, but it would be interesting if you could outline the equivalent rules in your area so others will be informed also.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by bickyd

The CEC follows the NEC and I am quoting the 2015 Canadian Electrical Code. The 2018 code book is just now being issued. Regardless of which code, protection is the focus of my statement and I am reinforcing the importance of qualified installers. Not to derail, but it would be interesting if you could outline the equivalent rules in your area so others will be informed also.

Well, for starters, every receptacle in the kitchen must be protected by a GFCI as well as the laundry. A recep is required over any counter with a wall behind 2 feet or longer and must not be more than 4' apart. Recep's on each side of the sink must not be more than 2' from edge of said sink. Islands and peninsulas require at least one recep but could be more depending on dimensions.

Individual circuits required for DW, GD, Micro, hood, fridge, trash compactor and could be more depending on any one item's electrical draw. Not less than 2 convenience circuits but they are not limited to 1 recep per circuit. Lighting is separate.

This is all ad lib from memory, not the way to approach electrical work. So any corrections are welcome. And I didn't even touch on AFCI's which are now required in all areas of the home living space except the baths. The garage, crawl space, attic, and outdoors are not considered living spaces but sunrooms are.

[dad911]

Correct zeke. This has been discussed before. It also MEETS CODE to use 15a receptacles on 12 gauge 20 amp breakers.

Confused about an NEC standard