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Need help with paint code 817-9-2

I have a '83 SC, built in Oct. of '82. Since I have owned the car, I have never been able to figure out what the color is. The local dealer look at the original books/color chips for model year '83 and said that my color was not a standard color. Saying further that it must of been a "paint to sample". However I have read that if it were truly a special order paint, the paint code would be "99". The code stamped on the paint tag is 817-9-2. The color is a dark red, non-metallic. I have searched many sites that say they have all paint codes, but alas, not this one.

Any assistance would be appreciated.
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The "collection"
1983 911 SC Targa (1 of 1430 imported)
1994 MB E320 Coupe (1 of 825 imported)
1992 MB 190E 2.6
2004 Volvo V70 2.5 Turbo (1 of a bazillion imported)
Old 06-30-2013, 06:52 PM
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I have an 80SC. The original paint code plate reads 017-99-02. The 017 code is for Burgundrot (Burgundy red). According to the 912 Registry site 017, 6808, and 30868 are all the same Burgundrot color. My color is a "paint to sample" hence the 099 code. These were all colors in the 1968- 1970 range. In your case it looks like Fritz may have had one too many schnapps at lunch and when he got back to the assembly line he only stamped your plate with one 9 instead of 99. Call PCNA, they gave me my color over the phone before I got my C0A confirming my 99 code.
Old 07-04-2013, 04:41 AM
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Almost forgot! Here's a pic of my Burgundrot 80SC for your viewing pleasure!
Old 07-04-2013, 04:47 AM
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I never thought about a digit being missing on the plate. So the paint codes are all xxx-xx-x, whereas mine is xxx-x-x? Who or what department at PCNA do I speak with.

My color is close to yours. Attached is a picture. When the sun hits it, and not to be a smart a$$, it gets brighter with almost Guards red look to it.
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The "collection"
1983 911 SC Targa (1 of 1430 imported)
1994 MB E320 Coupe (1 of 825 imported)
1992 MB 190E 2.6
2004 Volvo V70 2.5 Turbo (1 of a bazillion imported)
Old 07-04-2013, 08:17 AM
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My sincere apologies to old Fritz! Just went out and checked my paint code plate. Mine reads 017-9-2 as well.. Translation is 017 (Paint code); 9 (Porsche factory); 2 (Glasurit). My COA reads "Metallic paint to sample/99". So my Burgundrot color was a special order 68-70 Porsche color in metallic paint. Don't know if Porsche was spraying metallic back in 68-70 or you had to ask for it from the factory with your sample paint order. My color also changes from almost a dark brown to bright red depending on lighting conditions. Don't have PCNA's number offhand, check heir website.
Old 07-04-2013, 01:59 PM
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Where did you get the break down of paint codes, ie: "9" meaning Porsche factory? I have a Redbook for Porsches that breaks down VIN numbers, but I don't recall anything about translating paint codes to the extent you mentioned, just what colors were associated with the first 3 numbers.
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The "collection"
1983 911 SC Targa (1 of 1430 imported)
1994 MB E320 Coupe (1 of 825 imported)
1992 MB 190E 2.6
2004 Volvo V70 2.5 Turbo (1 of a bazillion imported)
Old 07-04-2013, 07:02 PM
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what you find in a 912 registry will have little to no baring on your 1980 plus 911's .
the 912 is a karmann built car there for the paint code used with the numbers after it are not used by porsche built cars . they do not mean the same things .
yes the 9 in the code is in fact a stock order color from porsche were a 99 , 999 or 9999 will stand for a special order color .
the 2nd number for karmann is the paint they did ni fact use as it was only the porsche factory them selfs that had a comtract with BASF to only use there coating . so CO's like karmann could use other coating as they at that time did not fall under the porsche factory contract that they had with BASF but later on did so as porsche's contract with basf wqas writen as all porsche's had to use BASF for there coatings . that is also way you will also see on the early porsche's with a L, G or H on there paint codes to tell you what paint CO they used . in 1978 all that info changed and by 1980 the porsche CO AG only had to use BASF .

your 1983 is not 99 COLOR it is a factory stock color for that year . 817 burgunderrot 1982 to 1983 .
it was not a popular color so they did not list it in the color books for the two years as the cost to do so would not be worth doing . there are a total or 4 colors not listed in the year of 1983 that were in fact stock 9 colors they are two greens and a gold color also .
you will also find colors that are not used for every country not listed many times . a color that is sold in say the USA may not be offered in the say UK for that year so it too will not be listed in the color book for that year . again it comes down to cost to do the books at that time the color chips you were looking at were real paint chips unlike today they are creapper inks that are used making it easier and cheaper to print books for every country .


so Fritz did not go out and have to many drinks at lunch as there were two women that did the color documentation ( leah and or heidi ) .

you will not find a paint code listed in the BASF color formulas any more with the new 22 line paint system . BASF dropped many color formulas that were not used or were very low production colors because of cost to cross over the tints to the 22 line system . it is listed in the old 21 line system but is useless becuase some of the old tints do not cross over to the newer paint line .

there was a time when you could call the porsche parts DEPT and give them your vin number and they would give you the color info of your car but they stopped that some years ago because of to many calls with people just looking for color info with no sales . so now you can't even do that by calling porsche AG them selfs . the only way you can get color info is from people that have the factory books and microfiche like my self .
and that too is just to much when i get people calling me and sending emails about 8 times a day asking me for color info so i had to put a end to it also .

there are many that say they have 99 colors on there cars when in fact they don't just by checking there VIN numbers . all 99 colors have the VIN listed with the said colors right in the porsche books and microfiche . i owned a 911 that the new owner was trying to sell the car years later by saying they forgot to punch a extra 9 on the color tag as a 99 color when all we did is spray a pearl color over the OE white . i have also seen were some car owners will buy a new color plate and stamp a 99 color into it just to say they have a 99 color coded car trying to BS people .
it's used to be very ez to find out but now with porsche not giving out color info it's become a little harder .

you could see the tags punched different ways . some times you will see a 99 , 999 or 9999 were the paint code should be other times you will see a color code with a 99 after it .
on my 968 6 speed coupe i have a L999-99-0 for a paint color code the only way you know it's a OE paint in golfblau is from the vin . there are only 3 968's paint in the golfblau from porsche but i have found other people stating they too have golfblau 968's . one person as at a porsche show stating it so i took his vin numvber and found he was BSing about it as his cars color from porsche was in fact a gray met color .
things some people will do to try and make there car worth more .
Old 07-04-2013, 09:18 PM
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Now we're getting somewhere! So 017, 6808,30868 and 817 are all the same stock Porsche factory colors? I thought that 017 was only listed as a stock 911 and 912 color around 68 thru 70. According to my "highly accurate" COA then the first owner of my SC liked the older Burgundrott so much that he ordered a "metallic paint to sample/99". What would trigger that statement? Burgundrott not listed on the charts? Or not originally a metallic color? Inquiring minds want to know? The fate of the free world may very well rest on the answers to these burning questions!! Seriously, very interesting and educational for other Pelicans!!
Old 07-05-2013, 04:11 AM
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Burgundrrot is a solid color only !
there is another that is called Burgundy Met. but it's a different color being a metallic it does how ever look the same as it's made up with most of the same tint colors. but they add a fine and medium cut flake matellic to the color and remove some of the yellow and LS white tint to make up for the brite metallic flake .
so the colors do look almost the same but for the metallic .

the COA's IMO are a total joke . many are not all that accurate i have a 944s2 and they state that the car has a 6 speed trans when they never came with one in the 944's .
i have a customer with a 911 they have the color number right but the color name is wrong .
porsche had to come up with some thing to sell you when they stopped just giving the info away . it's called business !
the fact that the name of a color really has no meaning at all . there are some colors that the manufacture will call one thing and the paint CO will call it some thing else . most of the time you will see it when they translate from say german to english though because BASF and porsche are both german CO's you don't see that to much with them
Old 07-05-2013, 07:25 AM
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Thank you very much for the lesson. It would be nice, but apparently impossible, to find out how many 911s were imported in this color. So 817 is Burgundy, 9 is Porsche factory color and the 2 is for BASF.

If I may ask, how did you come to have factory books/microfiche?

I also agree with you about the COA's Porsche states the COAs will only print out information that is available. So it's a $100 gamble of what you will get for information. The 2 things I want to know has been the color, which you answered, and how much did my particular car cost new. I know what the base price was in 1983, approx. $31,000, but my car has the factory optional alarm system, full leather interior, 16" Fuchs and the sport seats. All of which I know weren't cheap options, especially the full leather. I have seen some COAs at PCA events and none of them had the price on them. So, I am not spending $100 to get essentially no useful information.

Thank you again or solving my question about color.
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The "collection"
1983 911 SC Targa (1 of 1430 imported)
1994 MB E320 Coupe (1 of 825 imported)
1992 MB 190E 2.6
2004 Volvo V70 2.5 Turbo (1 of a bazillion imported)

Last edited by S2GART; 07-05-2013 at 08:11 AM..
Old 07-05-2013, 08:03 AM
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no in your case the 2 is not BASF as what i stated before .
your color name is also not what you stated unless it's a metallic and by your code it is not !
the color name of your car is Burgunderrot with a code of 817 . the english word for burgunderrot is burgundy red .
the other colors i'm talking about are burgunder and burgunder metallic missing red ( not your color ).
that is were and why you are seeing alot of red on what is called the flip of the color .


i was one of the dept heads of coating at PORSCHE AG for years . that is how i came by the books .
as for the amount of porsches painted that color like i said before i'm not doing that any more for any one . it takes to much of my time to look up 5 to 10 peoples cars every day . now ever not to many that color it was not popular do not confuse a not popular with a rare color they are not the same a rare color is a 99 color and a not popular color is one that did not sell all that well . that is not to say it's not in any way a good looking color i kind of like it but by the 1980's it was a dated color making the car look more like a late 1960's or 1970 car that is why it was not a good selling color . brite colors were popular in the 1980's remember neon's also pastels and super shades .
Old 07-05-2013, 05:57 PM
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When you said the name burgunderrot, I figured it was burgundy red, but when I went to an online translator,came up as "burgundy". Eitherway, I appreciate you clarifying my car's color. It is definitely not a metallic. So Burgunderrot it is.

Also, I wasn't looking for you to look up any statistics. I respect your decision to refrain from doing so. I was just commenting on the possibility of getting that info directly from Porsche.

Though it may not have sold well back then, present day I have had a number of people comment, in a good way, about the color.

I was hoping to forget about the neons and pastels of the 80's.... but thanks for bringing them back up
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The "collection"
1983 911 SC Targa (1 of 1430 imported)
1994 MB E320 Coupe (1 of 825 imported)
1992 MB 190E 2.6
2004 Volvo V70 2.5 Turbo (1 of a bazillion imported)
Old 07-05-2013, 07:58 PM
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i totaly agree with you about the color of the car ! i like it my self and when you have the car in the sun it really looks good .
Old 07-06-2013, 03:03 AM
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Not trying to hijack this thread, but just trying to be clear about Burgundrott. So, my SC original color code plate 017-9-2, if a solid color (non metallic), would be an early Burgundrott factory color? Could that 017 color have been special ordered as a metallic and still retain the 017 on the plate or do you feel the COA is flat out wrong by stating "paint to sample metallic"? When we did my SC restoration we used the 017 on the code plate as the paint reference and threw in a slight metallic to conform to the COA. It was very difficult to tell if the original paint in hidden areas was solid or metallic but the basic 017 was a very close match before adding metallic. Still looks pretty nice for a color, as you stated, that was not then very popular!
Old 07-06-2013, 04:28 AM
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You car looks darker than mine in that last picture. If my car were in that picture you would see more red.

After 962Porsche mentioned about Burgunderrot not being a popular color, to the point that didn't bother putting it on any lists, I consulted my 911 "Red Book" covering 1965-2005. I couldn't find Burgundy listed as a standard or "special order" color for any years. Nor could I find your 017 code. The lowest number I could find was 20A which is a Mint Green.
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The "collection"
1983 911 SC Targa (1 of 1430 imported)
1994 MB E320 Coupe (1 of 825 imported)
1992 MB 190E 2.6
2004 Volvo V70 2.5 Turbo (1 of a bazillion imported)
Old 07-06-2013, 05:26 AM
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I don't remember exactly where I found all the info on code 017. I do know that my 80SC original color code plate is 017. The 912 Registry does list 017 Burgunrott as a standard 912 color for 68-69 and a special order color for 66-69. Perhaps my SC's original owner really liked the old 60's 912 color and special ordered it from Porsche in metallic! Stranger things have happened in Stuttgart!!
Old 07-06-2013, 10:11 AM
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this is what happens all the time i give one person the info of there car and i get other people then asking about there cars color .
your 017 code is right for that year of 1980 . how every it has nothing to do with any 912's as i stated before it was not built by karmann .
the color of your car how ever does not look like burgunderrot it looks like the color burgunder Metallic with the code of 436 for the years of 1976 and 1977 . how ever i'm not looking up the color info to make sure of the color , color code or the years and if they are right .but looking at the photo you posted thats what the color looks like to me . it does not have the rot in the color of burgunder rot .
i would say your car was repainted in that color ? but it may not even be a porsche OE color it could just be a color the last owner liked in a color chip book ?

many times when porsche is up dating there info if they only paint under a certain number of cars they don't up date the info for them they just drop the info off the list . they did it when they went from paper to microfilm and then the same when they went to disc . why you may ask and it all has to do with money ! the cost to pay some one to up things is very high it has to do with the time it takes . for some one or me to go thru all the years of the color under a color code then add up just how many cars and models were painted in the color with vin numbers it takes hours to do so some times .

the same holds true for when the old colors have to be up dated from the paint CO's . say the paint co changes there paint line like many had to do becuase of the new VOC rules from the Gov.
and again with the new waterborn base colors . they have to spend time and money to match all the old colors when they have colors that not many car were painted in and the color is not offered on todays cars they tend to just drop the info . if a body shop needs to paint a car that color there are other ways to get the right color to match them but they are also not in the main paint system ( on disc)

Last edited by 962porsche; 07-06-2013 at 07:08 PM..
Old 07-06-2013, 06:45 PM
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I really appreciate your taking the time to give us this information. It's not often in the world of Porsches that we owners get the opportunity to get input and info from people who have hands on and years of real world experience like yourself. I can certainly understand how overwhelming and annoying us Porsche owners can be at times and for that I apologize. But I can assure you that most serious P-car owners, myself included for over 30 years, are constantly seeking info on their cars not just so they can out-info their fellow owners but because of their respect and deep love for all things Porsche. Once again thank you for taking the time to help us out in our quest for info.
Old 07-07-2013, 04:22 AM
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Here is a picture of my car in the sun, from this past May. You can see how much brighter my paint is in the sun. It's almost another color.
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The "collection"
1983 911 SC Targa (1 of 1430 imported)
1994 MB E320 Coupe (1 of 825 imported)
1992 MB 190E 2.6
2004 Volvo V70 2.5 Turbo (1 of a bazillion imported)
Old 07-07-2013, 10:28 AM
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