SCWDP Round-Up '04

[Schrup]

Canada sounds great, may have to cut my hair so I don't get cavity searched at the border.

[rdane]

No offense intended to the Canadian brothers on the board but the political climate and selective LE that has been reported of late in the Squamish/Kelowna/Whistler/Vancouver area makes me take a real second look and any cross border tour.

I used to live and work in Canada so I don't make that statement lightly.
Americans being physically assaulted and seriously hurt is bad enough (with no follow through, arrests or punishment by the Canadian LE on half a dozen assaults on Americans over the last few months).

But the real concern for myself is the documented and continual trashing of cars with US plates in Canada. When the Blaine US Customs guys are warning folks of the same (this week to my wife and here crew crossing for work) on car trashing and broken wind shields I am not real excited about a being high profile target in a P car.

Missed this year's because my wife's BD was on the same date but I will be on next year's trip. Food for thought.

[Tim Polzin]

Not sure what an LE is, but yah, sometimes we are so brazen that we actually don't say "Sorry" when someone steps on our toes.

Tim

Oh!, I just figured out "LE" = law enforcement. Yes, the RCMP have always been know to be very brash. Sometimes they won't even change into their "RED's" to have their picture taken.

[Bruce Huling]

How about a trip around southern arizona? We (my friends and I) have taken a yearly ride as follows- Day one- 2 laner back road from Phoenix to (all back roads) to Rio Rico Country Club near Nogales. Stop along the way at Kit Peak Observatory after crossing from Arrivica. Day 2- Run toTombstone through beautiful Coronado National Forest. Get a refreshment, some lunch, see the sites, then on to Bisbee and a relaxing afternoon in Bisbee, A great dinner at La Roca (top ten restaurant in az) a nice stay at the historic Copper Queen. FOr those who like live music, the bar around the corner is over 100 years old and always has at least one great band. Day 3- NIce leisurely breakfast, then a snappy blast back to Tucson by the interstate, then off back onto two laners up Phoenix... Anyone interested??

[Mike Kast]

Why not the Blueridge Mountains? I wanna go too I stole that smily from Pierre.
You west coast guys have all the fun!

[stealthn]

Doug,

Anywhere is the BC interior and Alberta. Banff to Jasper, Calgary to Castlegar, the list goes on and on.
Rdane, I guarantee you the acts of the few do not represent the majority or even minority of the populations' views.

[Bruce Huling]

Why not stay in the USA? Our economy could use the boost, no troubles, and just the phrase "cavity search" gives me the willies (no pun intended).

[Drago]

The 3rd Annual SCWDP Rain Forest Region CanAm Round-Up will be held in Canada.

See, it's a CanAm event...

As far as crossing the border...it's not really that bad going into Canada....it's getting out that is *sometimes* more difficult.

[Doug Zielke]

rdane....it's simple. If you're worried, don't come.

[island911]

Originally posted by rdane
No offense intended to the Canadian brothers on the board but the political climate and selective LE that has been reported of late in the Squamish/Kelowna/Whistler/Vancouver area makes me take a real second look and any cross border tour.

. . .
Americans being physically assaulted and seriously hurt

. . .

trashing of cars with US plates in Canada.
. . .

So, what happened to cause all this bad stuff you talk about? War? . . .or worse? . . . did our hockey team beat their hockey team.

Seriously, where did this come from, and do you really think it will be an issue a year from now?

[maxnine11]

if you are afraid of being in Canada, you will be VERY afraid of lift throttle oversteer while cornering on a mountain road chosen for RR3 . best just to stay parked in the garage.....save a lot of sleepless nights...
max

[rdane]

"Seriously, where did this come from, and do you really think it will be an issue a year from now?"

I though a little heads up was warrented. A number of incidents have recently come to light, via the local Seattle news that paint Canada LE and the documented US bashing reported in a pretty dim light.

Take that any way you like. I mention assaults, bashing of US plated cars and people because it has become a problem and it is on going.
Will it be next year? Your guess. Is it now? Yes.

Try KOMO TV's web site for more info. I know enough about it first hand to rethink any trip to Canada at the moment. If me mentioning it sticks in your craw so be it. Easy enough to verify.

http://www.komotv.com/news/story_m.asp?ID=26383

Doug, thanks for all the Candian brotherly love. I would have hoped for a little reassurance. Something like the posibility of protected parking and a warm welcome to your country. When US Customs makes a point of warning US citizens about their cars and person being at risk, last week while in Canada I'd want to know about it. When Canada LE fails to protect and prosecute Canadian citizens for physical attacks and destruction of property, directed at US citizens, I find it concerning.

Funny enough after three US climbers were attacked in Squamish recenty, suffering serious physically injuries, a verbal threat of rape and their property vandalized, the local RCMP told the three Ameicans afterwards, "you should just stay home." That after 30 Candaian kids attacked, unprovoked, 2 guys and a girl (grade school teacher BTW) in their 20s, trashed and set fire to the camping gear, slashed the tires on their Mtn bikes and broke out the windshield and bashed their car.

I bet they now wished they had stayed home.

It took Seattle media getting involved to get an apology from the RCMP (although still no arrests have been made even with positive IDs) and the Squamish major to offer reimbursement for the damage and medical expenses. Just one of a number of incidents being documented currently. Some worse than this. What has been reported is the tip of the iceberg IMO from my review of the info coming in.

Doug, as you say, "If you're worried, don't come." Sounds a lot like the RCMP answer to the situation. May be the answer is, "we should just stay home" as suggested.

The reality of threat assessment, is that the likelihood of being attacked in Canada or the US for that matter is very low. But in this case US citizens in Canada are not offered the same protections that a Candaian visitor is offered in the US. Neither do we hear of Candian cars being vandalized or Candian citizens being attacks for just being Canadian. When US plated cars are being vandalized that does concerns me when I am driving my Porsche.

Bottom line is being aware makes you less likely a victim. Situational awareness, is typically situational dominace. Ignoring the situation simply escalates your risk.

[Tim Polzin]

Originally posted by rdane
When US Customs makes a point of warning US citizens about their cars and person being at risk, last week while in Canada I'd want to know about it.

When I cross the border from the US to Canada, I never even see a US Customs officer.

Tim

[rdane]

That would be because you don't stop at US Customs on the way out of the US typically. You stop at Candian Customs on entry. Same way leaving Canada. You stop at US customs on entry.

The warning came from US Customs when the party stopped to declare items taken from the US into Canda so there would be no hassle on the return trip back into the States. The Customs Officer's warning was predicated on the abnormal amount of US cars returning from Canada at the Blaine crossing that were vandalized and had broken windows.

[island911]

Ah geeze . .thanks for the clarification, but sheesh; a group of "bored and restless teens" . . .in one town!?

Ya know, just a couple weeks after 9/11, I got on an international flight with a group of 5 Arabic men (all about 22 y/o). I didn't let that bother me, and I am certainly not going to let a 'group of punks hanging out at a chevron station in one tourist town put a damper on our drive.

I mean really! Not only are there more important things to worry about, but I really don't believe that even if the drive were tomorrow, and we all pulled into their chevron-hangout to gas-up that they would dare pull any crap.

BTW, the Round-up '02 ended up in Squamish . . we spent the night there. It was without incident. . . .well there was that rowdy pack of Porsche drivers.

[rdane]

"Bottom line is being aware makes you less likely a victim."

[island911]

True! and I do appreciate the link outlining the problem.

But being aware is a full-time gig.
Ex: On our last round-up, in Hoodriver, Oregon, USA some punk shadowed me as I left the bar. (presumably after my nifty electronics). He attempted to control the situation, but *that* didn't get him far. It ended without incident . . maybe he saw that I was palming a knife.. . .who knows? Anyway, Even Forest Gump know that "***** Happens" . . .it can happen anywhere.

It just seems that you're blowing this way out of proportion. It's a real thread-kill.

[Jack Olsen]

Wow. This is bringing out something new in Island911, and I like it.

You can't have Can-Am without Canada.

If you guys hold the 04 event in Canada, I'll bring my car up from Los Angeles.

[maxnine11]

the incidents mentioned ARE deplorable, even if reported in a slightly sensationalized manner. Given that....what facts or reasoning makes you state that "this is the tip of the iceberg".
some of my Canadian acquaintences think I am crazy spending time in LA....based on news reports from here (Los Angeles). speaking of sensationalized reporting
i am sure if you sat at a border crossing interviewing travellers going both directions, 99.99% of them would have had a pleasant experience.
Compared to most countries on the planet, I think we have it pretty darn good!!
max

[rdane]

Sensationalizing isn't part of my routine.

I have seen the reports and pictures for three recent incidents in Western Canada, which involved a total of 8 Americans. The majority of the Americans had the crap beat out of them. Several with long term injuries that they not easily, if ever recover from. My impression after review is the incidents are being under reported.

The "tip of the iceberg" because more reports of similar nature keep cropping up as the incidents reported get more press.

Hey I am careful where I park my car at home, in Seattle, in LA or now in Canada.