97 degrees outside - 40 degrees inside

scottb · 11:04 AM

Some of you might recall my recent installation of a ProCooler and a condenser/fan assembly in the front left fender of my 84. Well, today was something of an "acid test."

It was 97 degrees outside today. I could feel the heat baking through the Targa top. I was still getting vent temps of 39-40 degrees. Given that the car is a Targa, and given the marginal P-car a/c to begin with, I think this is about as good as it's gonna get.

Not gonna be able to hang meat in there, but I'm a happy camper nonetheless.

mjshira · 09-21-2003, 02:20 PM

I am thinking about adding a/c would you mind posting your experience/pics?
thx

88911coupe · 09-22-2003, 06:50 AM

Could you provide some more details about exactly what you did regarding the front condensor fan assembly? Or is this in a previous thread?

scottb · 09-22-2003, 06:56 AM

88911: I bought an aftermarket condenser/fan assembly from www.iceac.com. I removed the washer bottle and vapor recovery tank, and installed the unit in the front left fender. The kit is not a "turnkey" arrangement, so brackets were fabricated. I relocated an aftermarket washer bottle into the luggage compartment, and replaced the vapor recovery tank with a catch can. The new fan is triggered by a relay wired into the existing front condenser fan. So, now I have three condensers; the two original ones from the factory and the new one in the front left fender.

stlrj · 10-25-2003, 10:06 AM

My 86 3.2 gets down even lower on Propane instead of R12. Only problem I have is having my evaporator freeze up if I keep the t-stat set too low.

Joe

Tyson Schmidt · 10-25-2003, 10:17 AM

Joe, how safe is it to run propane? I'm intrigued by the this idea. It's cheap and effective, but it kinda scares me a little.

If you don't respond, I'll assume an arcing plug wire combined with a compressor leak sent you hurtling into the stratosphere in a mushrrom cloud.

stlrj · 10-25-2003, 05:26 PM

Tyson, think about it...only 16oz of Propane in your entire A/C system. How many gallons of gasoline under high pressure with lines running all around a hot engine do you carry without a thought?

Besides, Propane is odorized, so you'll know if you have a leak in an instant. Just like when I'm camping, I know when the Propane bottle isn't screwed on the lantern correctly when I get that nasty smell.

Anyway, it's been in my car now for about 6 months and I'm not loosing any sleep over it.

Cheers,

Joe Garcia
86 Carrera
Redwood PCA since 1976 (former tech chair)

twin plugged targa · twin plugged targa's Garage

I have heard of this use of propane before on this site and it does sound strange.
If it is so cheap and effective , why is it not used on a wider basis?
is it less safe?
Can it effect the life of any compressor parts?
Is it worse for the environment?
There must be a reason/some reasons why we do not use Propane on a wider basis.
Please enlighten us
Rgds` Ben

pwd72s · 10-25-2003, 05:41 PM

Gee..I'd like to hear from fire professionals here. But my strictly amateur thought is that gasoline burns. Propane explodes.

Tyson Schmidt · 10-25-2003, 05:43 PM

Yeah, it can't be any more dangerous than those propane powered vehicles.

Certainly cheaper than R12!

Is it as efficient as R12, or maybe even more-so?

What would be involved in converting? Evacuating the R12, then drawing a vacuum for a good half hour. Then just charge it with a propane bottle hooked up to the standard gauges? What pressures would I be looking for?

RoninLB · 10-25-2003, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pwd72s
Gee..I'd like to hear from fire professionals here. But my strictly amateur thought is that gasoline burns. Propane explodes.

the Fire Marshal around here sends out bulletins. There was a few explosive industrial freons that were being used in cars that cause the FD big problems at car fires. Air bags are another story. They say they fixed the possible old problems because a few FD guys got very hurt when the door or roof exploded.
IMO if a car is on fire, and nobody's in there, stay away unless your a pro. Exploding air bags, bumper shocks, batteries, toxic cyanides from interiors, etc., etc., etc...............Ron

stlrj · 10-25-2003, 06:46 PM

Yeah, everytime a car runs off a cliff on TV they always seem to explode. Must be all that explosive gasoline...

When was the last time you saw a Propane powered car or forklift explode?

To convert, I had my R12 recovered at a gas station, pulled a vacuum and charged with it with a 16oz Coleman bottle that I picked up at Payless for $3.00.

I also recalibrated my t-stat to keep the compressor engaged longer since the Propane runs colder than R12.

Initially my idea was to run the Propane to make sure I got all the leaks and not waste a lot of money on R12 in case I scewed up. But, as it turned out, I like the way it runs on the stuff and do not plan on going back to R12.

Joe

10-25-2003, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by twin plugged targa
I have heard of this use of propane before on this site and it does sound strange.
If it is so cheap and effective , why is it not used on a wider basis?

Probably because it's not tightly regulated and DuPont can't corner a big chunk of the market.

K. Roman · K. Roman's Garage

"Ahhh, sweet lady propane..."

Thomas Owen · 10-26-2003, 04:00 AM

Joe - what oil are you running in the a/c system?

turbo6bar · 10-26-2003, 05:12 AM

I have heard of this use of propane before on this site and it does sound strange.
If it is so cheap and effective , why is it not used on a wider basis?
is it less safe?

I understand propane/isobutane mixes are used overseas. I do not know to what extent. R-134a is reportedly a carcinogen, much to the chagrin of the plant workers overseas. I feel the risk of running propane is overestimated due to fear.

Can it effect the life of any compressor parts?

I have read that propane in the presence of moisture does not form a caustic solution, as opposed to freon.

Is it worse for the environment?

R-12 is claimed ozone-depleting. R-134a contributes to global warming. Propane/isobutane will break down in the atmosphere and does not destroy the ozone layer or contribute to global warming to the degree of R12 and/or R-134a.

There must be a reason/some reasons why we do not use Propane on a wider basis.
Please enlighten us
Rgds` Ben

Money.

The only drawbacks to propane/isobutane, in my eyes:
1) Using this stuff requires you to be a DIYer. Few A/C shops will work with you.
2) If you have a leak and are using a blend of propane/isobutane, the only way to top off is to evacuate and recharge.
3) Propane/isobutane from the speciality shops is more expensive than r-134a. If propane was used more extensively, then things might change.

Jürgen

stlrj · 10-26-2003, 06:02 AM

Thomas, I used the same oil the R12 used.

Joe

Tim Polzin · 10-26-2003, 06:10 AM

I've used the propane/butane brew for two years. Same problem as Joe though, if the thermistat is set too low, the evaporator freezes up. With no other mods to a stock system, vent temps of 3 to 5C with outside temps of 35C.

Tim

stlrj · 09:29 AM

Tim, how did you get the Isobutane mix? I'm still on pure Propane but would like to bring my pressures down closer to R-12.

I thought the propane/butane cocktail was supposed to solve the freeze up problem.

I found the p/t chart on Propane R-290:
http://www.paceindustrial.com/chart1.html

Joe

Tim Polzin · 10-26-2003, 02:33 PM

Joe:

Go to the end of this link. It describes two methods. I use the direct fill method.

http://vettenet.org/acfaq.txt

Tim