Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > Porsche Forums > Porsche 911 Technical Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Licensed User
 
Shuie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: ....down Highway 61
Posts: 6,451
3.0 engine swap into a '72

I found a engine that Im thinking of swapping into my '72. Its a carbed engine based from a SC motor. Im a little worried that the oil line connections on the motor may require some customization or fabrication to work.

I did a search on this and saw some old posts from 'emptyo' about a 3.0 swap into a '72. He ran into some problems, but they looked like they were due to either CIS or the stock heat exchangers on his 3.0.

The car that would be getting the engine already has the Bosch ignition upgrade in place with a new Permatune on an otherwise stock 2.4 MFI motor.

If the exhaust and heating system have already been backdated on the 3.0 engine, will the oil lines all hook up without a lot of trouble to the '72? Are there any special oil plumbing mods that would need to made to the lines of the '72 to get a 3.0 to fit in the car? Is there anything different to look out for with a '72 as opposed to a '73 when doing a swap from 3.0 based motor?

Any help is appreciated.

Old 12-29-2003, 09:06 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Swank911's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: North Shore Transplant, MA
Posts: 353
Garage
Send a message via AIM to Swank911 Send a message via Yahoo to Swank911
Shuie,

I put a 3.0 in my '73 last spring. With the backdated oil lines and using SSI exhaust, it was pretty much an easy swap.

I did need to send out my tach to pick up from the ignition box
__________________
Jon
'73 911e (ROW 3.0)
www.jonswanson.home.comcast.net
Old 12-29-2003, 09:15 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #2 (permalink)
Registered User
 
chuckw951's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Annapolis, Maryland
Posts: 1,328
For my swap (82 SC motor in 69 911) I mounted an early 911 engine oil cooler so that I could use the stock 69 S hose to connect to the oil tank. Not sure about the other lines. At this point I'm not running a front oil cooler.
__________________
1981 924 turbo
Old 12-29-2003, 09:38 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #3 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Cupertino, CA
Posts: 121
Shuie,

I've got a '78SC engine with carbs in my '72T project car. I got the car a year ago and it has the original SC heat exchangers and exhaust system, and no front oil cooler. I've got a set of SSI's to install this winter, and I'm planning on adding a front oil cooler at the same time.

The engine has the original SC oil lines on it right now. I got a '72 oil crossover pipe (a one year special configuration as far as I can tell) when I got the SSI's and it looks like it should bolt up without much hassle, but I haven't tried it out yet.

Ken
__________________
Go Bears!

74 Carrera Clone with 3.6 Vram - It Runs!
Old 12-29-2003, 11:34 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #4 (permalink)
Nobody
 
bob tilton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: NorCal
Posts: 2,224
Garage
Shuie - i don't mean to hijack your thread but i am curious about people's feedback on this swap in re: to the fun factor as a dailey driver.
__________________
Bob Tilton
www.werkcrew.com
Old 12-29-2003, 01:50 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #5 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Swank911's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: North Shore Transplant, MA
Posts: 353
Garage
Send a message via AIM to Swank911 Send a message via Yahoo to Swank911
I love the additional horse power and torque.

I miss the throttle response of the MFI though.
__________________
Jon
'73 911e (ROW 3.0)
www.jonswanson.home.comcast.net
Old 12-29-2003, 03:23 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #6 (permalink)
Licensed User
 
Shuie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: ....down Highway 61
Posts: 6,451
No problem Bob, Im curious about that also. Thanks for the help guys!
Old 12-29-2003, 03:36 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #7 (permalink)
Registered User
 
techweenie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: West L.A.
Posts: 20,007
Garage
I have a 3.0 in a '73 CIS car. easy swap, though my tach isn't adapted yet.

It's big fun to do the stoplight drags with this car. Big, thick, syrupy power in a light car...

Engine is stock except for the air pump -- it has EGR lines in place and stock heat exchangers. I'd like to feel the differnece with a lightened flywheel and old-style heat exchangers (phase 1).

Phase 2 would be a 3.0 with MFI...

:-)
__________________
techweenie | techweenie.com
Marketing Consultant (expensive!)
2004 996 Turbo Cab, triple black | all out of longhoods again
2018 Chevy Volt dd/parts fetcher
Old 12-29-2003, 03:50 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #8 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Elombard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 7,121
Shuie tell us more about the motor; cams, compression? sounds like fun. HOw much for the motor?
__________________
erik.lombard@gmail.com
1994 Lotus Esprit S4 - interesting!
84 lime green back date (LWB 911R) SOLD
RSR look hot rod, based on 75' SOLD
73 911t 3.0SC Hot rod Gulf Blue - Sold.
Old 12-29-2003, 04:10 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #9 (permalink)
Licensed User
 
Shuie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: ....down Highway 61
Posts: 6,451
Im picking it up tomorrow morning. My wrench built it a few years ago for another customer and I dont know all the details right now. What he remembers about it sounds perfect for my car. I trust the seller and my wrench, so I commited to it based on what Ive heard. It should really be a hoot. More details tomorrow after I pick it up.

Any opinions on this swap in a '73 as opposed to a '72? Does the '72 oil tank make it a lot more difficult?
Old 12-29-2003, 04:27 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #10 (permalink)
Nobody
 
bob tilton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: NorCal
Posts: 2,224
Garage
shuie,
i am in research mode so i hope i can pick your brain. i am not asking you to disclose any of your prices but i am thinking that a 3.0 swap can be had for about $5500-6K.

$4500 3.0 w approx 75K miles
$1000 misc
$500 for prof mechanic to dial it in perfect
$0 engine removal/install by me and a few friends

would you say this is accurate? it seems that a lot of people are removing perfectly running 3.0s with average miles for the 3.6. also, a lot of rebuilt 3.0s are showing up like you found.

i ahve not heard of too many people installing a 3.0 in a SWB. is there a reason for this?
__________________
Bob Tilton
www.werkcrew.com
Old 12-29-2003, 04:42 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #11 (permalink)
Licensed User
 
Shuie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: ....down Highway 61
Posts: 6,451
I'll disclose details, no problem. If this thing is what my wrench remembers building, I will be so proud I wont be able to help posting about it. I just dont want to post them before I get the motor and then look like a dummy later on

Im not a mechanic and even if I had the extra money, I dont think I have the skillset to do a 3.6. I dont know for sure what its going to cost me to get the engine in a running car yet, but I think the numbers you posted will get me really close.

Ive never thought about it, but I dont know why we dont see more SWB cars with the bigger engines.

Last edited by Shuie; 12-29-2003 at 05:01 PM..
Old 12-29-2003, 04:57 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #12 (permalink)
 
Registered User
 
Swank911's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: North Shore Transplant, MA
Posts: 353
Garage
Send a message via AIM to Swank911 Send a message via Yahoo to Swank911
Techweenie,

I have a lightened fly wheel and SSIs, The engine spins up quickly, you have to be aware of revs in first and 2nd.

1st, 2nd and third are the best when pulling onto a highway, especially with the low gearing of the 915.

The rear steps out regularly upon pressing down on the gas pedal from stops.

I bought my rebuilt 3.0 and had it swapped out for 7k, this included updating the chain tensioners (why they were not done during the rebuild I will never now) and converting '80 exhaust to SSI and tuning the engine out plus some minor tweaking.

I had mine swapped out by an independant in the area do to lack of time.

What is anyone running for tires? I find even 205s are too small.
__________________
Jon
'73 911e (ROW 3.0)
www.jonswanson.home.comcast.net
Old 12-29-2003, 05:23 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #13 (permalink)
Registered User
 
chuckw951's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Annapolis, Maryland
Posts: 1,328
Re: fun factor

More HP and torque is great fun. I have PMOs, electromotive ignition and SSI heat exchangers...throttle response is pretty good too. This car is much faster than the '78 911SC that I had previously. Winding out the gears is shear joy.

Re: daily driver. With carbs it takes a while to get started on cold mornings.

Re: My swap cost more than $6K though I did rebuild the motor with new P&Cs, added the carbs and ignition and a 70/71 trans. Guages needed to be adapted as well. Other things needed to be fixed while I was in there including a new clutch package, motor mount bar, motor mounts and rebuilt axles. Wiring was a challange at first but figured out with wiring diagrams and help from the good folks on this BBS.
__________________
1981 924 turbo

Last edited by chuckw951; 12-29-2003 at 06:22 PM..
Old 12-29-2003, 06:20 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #14 (permalink)
Registered User
 
rickeolis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Near Albuquerque, New Mexico
Posts: 1,076
Porsche Crest 2.7 'S' in a 69-

Shuie- I had to have one custom hose built by a local shop that went from the metal tube coming from my 2.7 engine to the original oil tank on my '69 T oil tank. That is the high pressure line. For the low pressure line on the external oil tank, I just used a hose from the tank with its original fitting and cut it on the end to push onto the fitting coming off of the engine based oil cooler using a ring clamp.
I have been enjoying the same first and second gear burnouts listed by the others since making this swap! Mine is a rebuilt 901 tranny, which is geared low so I have enourmous low-end power, but poor gas mileage and it probably will only top out at about 130 MPH (I have yet to try that.)
I am using Webers, so I get great throttle response as well!

Have fun-
__________________
-Rickeolis-

1986 Corvette

Last edited by rickeolis; 12-29-2003 at 07:28 PM..
Old 12-29-2003, 07:22 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #15 (permalink)
Warren Hall Student
 
Bobboloo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Los Angeles Ca.USA
Posts: 3,967
Garage
Shuie,

I've got a 72' with a 2.7CIS I put in it (similar). The oil lines were the easy part.

I don't think any mods are necessary since your going with the early heat exchangers. All you do is remove the crossover pipe from the 3.0 and then screw the 72' crossover hose to the side of the case where the pipe used to be. The oil cooler side hooks up just like it does on the 2.4 using the 2.4 hoses.

This is from memory but I'll double check and repost if I'm mistaken on this.

There will be some difference in the multi-pin connector configuration since the 72' has an external regulator and 3.0 has it built in to the alternator. Also a couple of other little changes.

You'll need the throttle rod link from the 3.0 that goes between the tranny bell crank and the bell crank plate on the motor that connects to the throttle. (this is the plate where the MFI pump was mounted on your 2.4)

Lastly, the fuel lines have to be adapted. To me this is the toughest part of the swap. The 72' just used hoses with clamps because the pressure was somewhat low. Between the injection pump and the injectors is where the high pressure lines were on the MFI motor. So on the 3.0CIS you need to change out the filter, pump, get an acumulator and brackets,and get all the appropriate hoses with fittings on the ends. I just put the pump where the 2.4 pump was in the back to simplify things. This meant I only had to change lines from the center tunnel exit rearward. Ideally you put the pump up by the gas tank. It's more work and more cost for you but it makes life easier for the pump.
__________________
Bobby

Warren Hall 1950 - 2008
_____"Early_S_Man"_____
Old 12-30-2003, 12:27 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #16 (permalink)
Licensed User
 
Shuie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: ....down Highway 61
Posts: 6,451
Thanks again guys!

Bobby, the engine that would be going in the car is carbed. Hopefully, that will make things a little simpler.
Old 12-30-2003, 02:25 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #17 (permalink)
Warren Hall Student
 
Bobboloo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Los Angeles Ca.USA
Posts: 3,967
Garage
Indeed it will.
__________________
Bobby

Warren Hall 1950 - 2008
_____"Early_S_Man"_____
Old 12-30-2003, 08:24 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #18 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Swank911's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: North Shore Transplant, MA
Posts: 353
Garage
Send a message via AIM to Swank911 Send a message via Yahoo to Swank911
What are you guys running for tires on theses narrow bodies?
__________________
Jon
'73 911e (ROW 3.0)
www.jonswanson.home.comcast.net
Old 12-30-2003, 02:37 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #19 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Elombard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 7,121
Schuie lets here some more details on the motor! did you do the deal?

__________________
erik.lombard@gmail.com
1994 Lotus Esprit S4 - interesting!
84 lime green back date (LWB 911R) SOLD
RSR look hot rod, based on 75' SOLD
73 911t 3.0SC Hot rod Gulf Blue - Sold.
Old 12-30-2003, 03:05 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #20 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 03:16 AM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2020 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.