Mid-Engine 911?

[Wrecked944]

Does anyone know how (or why) this thing was constructed?

http://www.perfectpowerinc.com/race_preowned.html

Apparently built by Alex Job for Fabcar. No slouches there. But isn't everything about a 911 designed with a rear engine setup in mind? I would think if putting the motor in the middle of a 911 shell was a good idea, Dr P would have done it long ago.

That being said, I'd love to pick it apart to see how it was made but I don't have the $140k purchase price handy.

[jyl]

How about the Porsche GT1 that won Le Mans in 1998 and 1999?

[dd74]

I love that car. But for all practicality, isn't a mid-engined 911 a 914?

That's if one is being "practical."

[FenderGuy]

Would you call the Cerrera Gt a 914? I guess you dont understand the benfits of a mid engine car right.

[Grady Clay]

Come on guys, it's called "reading the rules" something Porsche and Porsche racers have done since day one! If there is a competetive advantage and it's legal, go for it. This is how we have such outragous cool cars now - someone was thinking.

[Joe Bob]

Don't foget.....The first 356 was mid-engined....

[dd74]

Fenderguy: didn't I use the word "practical?"

Auto racing at this caliber isn't practical unless you have unpractical finances backing it. Hence this car, which is nonetheless cool.

[ruf-porsche]

Interesting that it's a mid engine 911 but they don't show any pictures of the mid engine setup. Picture of the interior and the front fuel cell but not of the engine or transaxle.

[911pcars]

Pano had a writeup on this or another mid-engine FABCAR machine a few years ago. I think that one was built for IMSA rules that changed before it could be sorted. Very nicely engineered. Maybe this is the same or rebodied version of that car.

Dr. Porsche didn't do this because he wanted two tiny seats in the rear. If it wasn't for this accomodation and the fact that 914s were being built, I'm sure the engine would have ended up in the "right" place.

Sherwood
http://members.rennlist.org/911pcars

[TRE Cup]

Dave Klym at Fabcar constructed 2-3 of those cars. They were extremely low with trick suspension and lots of goodies. Unfortunately the rules hampered them (displacement and weight) from being competitive with the other cars. IMSA didn't want them running over the other competitors. We have a 2 piece kevlar roof from the first one here- same dimensions as a stock roof

[Wrecked944]

Originally posted by 911pcars
Dr. Porsche didn't do this because he wanted two tiny seats in the rear.
Sherwood

Ah, that makes sense. Thanks for all the info. I should point out I wasn't questioning the efficacy of mid-engine race cars in general. I was only questioning the decision to put a motor in the middle of a chassis designed specifically around the rear engine configuration. I assume the folks in Stuttgart have, over the years, optimized the whole 911 package around the rear mounted motor. And altering that scheme seems both risky and exciting. I am really curious to know what kind of mods they did to the chassis, suspension, etc to make the conversion work. For instance, I'm assuming they had to remove the sheet metal under the rear seats to make space for the motor. And I guess assume that might weaken the overall structure. And how did they get air into the engine space? Those are the sorts of things that would seem to make this mod really challenging and interesting. It really must be an impressive feat of engineering to behold.

We have a 2 piece kevlar roof from the first one here- same dimensions as a stock roof

Now that is a very interesting data point. Does this mean they used a stock 911 body as a basis instead of a tubular space frame thingy? The whole thing seems really intriguing. And of course, now I WANT one !!

[ruf-porsche]

They also replaced the Porsche transmission with a Hewland.

Suspension pieces could be hung from the Hewland transmission ala formula cars.

Other cars have been converted sucessfully to mid engine cnfiguration. Renault R5 Turbo started life as a front engine front wheel drive econo car and was later sucessfully converted to a screaming turbo midengine sleeper.

Even my two Lotus used the front wheel drive transmission from a Renault 16 but relocated to the rear and reverse for a mid-engine layout.

[TRE Cup]

i don't think that any chassis parts were used from a porsche! the whole thing was tube framed with race car fabricated suspension and body panels that conformed (ala nascar) to the 911 shape

[911pcars]

Dave is correct. The FABCAR Porsche was designed as a race car under IMSA regs. As such perhaps only part of the "sheet metal" sillouette (roof) had to conform to a street version.

Sherwood

[racemor]

Sherwood, this car may have been made for the IMSA rules, but Gunnar Racing was also doing the same thing in about 1995 (if I remember the correct year). They had built a mid-engined car that looked basically like a 911 just as IMSA killed off the GTO class that Nissan had dominated with the 300ZX. I first saw the car after a test day at Moroso in Palm Beach as they were loading it back into the trailer. They had it painted green in a fake sponsorship of some flying pickle company or something. (Gunnar racing's cars have always had a great sense of humor in the paint jobs) Here is a picture of the car, although it has been repainted to match the Exxon sponsored car they ran at Daytona. For more shots see gunnarracing.com in the "good old days" section. This site is excellent and these guys have what would be my dream job!


Caption quoted from their site:
"Mid-engine Gunnar G-93 - 1996 962 twin turbo engine and transmission. It's on its way to Sebring to protest the rule changes that made it unable to run."

[Jack Olsen]

Originally posted by ruf-porsche
Interesting that it's a mid engine 911 but they don't show any pictures of the mid engine setup. Picture of the interior and the front fuel cell but not of the engine or transaxle.

Exactly.

[techweenie]

Otto in Venice used to have a tube framed 993 'silhouette' mid-engine car. He used a 916 transmission... I understand it was ah, cantankerous on the track.

Otto doesn't seem to have it anymore. Maybe Steve S could shed more light?

[SteveStromberg]

[SteveStromberg]

[SteveStromberg]