the ideal setup(s)?

[nostatic]

It can be argued that our cars came from the factory pretty well setup, but there are always some tweaks to do. But as has been pointed out, they are a system, so once you change one thing, you invariably need to balance it with something else.

So there must be a couple of "ideal" compromises, right? For instance, I think bigger sways mate really well with the sport shocks on my car, and I can feel how bigger t-bars would match well. 7/8s seem to be a good match too, but wider is better, right? But going to 8/10s might then require a bit more hp to get it moving, right?

So what are the main determining factors? Wheel width to hp? Suspension bits to wheels width? Weight to hp? Or once you start down the slope do all paths lead to RSR flares and a 3.6?

[911pcars]

The factory designed and produced a pretty good off-the-shelf car compared to the rest of the competition. However, there's always room for improvement.

A general rule might be:

As the engine becomes larger (displacement wise), so must everything else (brakes, tires, torsion bars, shocks, wheels ..... wallet).

Sherwood

[dd74]

Originally posted by 911pcars
As the engine becomes larger (displacement wise), so must everything else (brakes, tires, torsion bars, shocks, wheels ..... wallet).

Wife's tolerance...

[Jack Olsen]

No. I think once you start down the slope, all paths lead to Dave, Tyson, Jeremy and the rest of the good crew at TRE.

Which means your 911 gets very fast.

[Fishcop]

I feel like I've careered (or is that carrera'd) out of control in the last 6 months with engine/brake/suspension upgrades, and I just can't see a light at the end of the tunnel... I reckon by the time some of us get our cars to where we want them, we might as well have taken out a big 2nd mortgage and bought a 917....

[Bill Verburg]

There is no one ideal setup, individual preference, local conditions, usage all affect the compromises that need to be made. About the best you can do is set the car up to your taste, while leaving the capability to adjust to conditions.

Easily adapted stratigies - Adjustable sways, tandem m/c, spare wheels and tires w/ different characteristics

Wilder options - different transmissions, adjustable coil overs

Your bank account is the only limit

[304065]

Todd, all roads lead to YOU.

If you start with a slab-sided '65 911, you will eventually morph into a 911R. If you start with a mildly flared 911S, you will end up as an RSR. The development path will generally follow what the factory did. You end up with a slide-valve MFI 2.8 in a car that weighs 2200 pounds with 15" flares.

I think the best modification you can do is to buy a DL-90 data logger and install it in the car. When you can bring the front tires to the edge of lockup so that the car doesn't turn when you move the wheel, then slightly back out of the brake pedal so the car turns in at maximum g, then bring the throttle to maximum at the apex without upsetting the car, THEN it's time to think about bigger tires.

The trouble is, if you go to 7x9 or 8x9, the limits just went up. You WANT low limits so you can explore them at a speed that will allow you to recover in time when you go over.

IMHO, better for your development to be driving at 100% of the car's capability with a 155HP 2.2 and 255 rubber than at 75% in an SC with 200 HP (SSI and CIS richened up) and 245/40ZR17 & 275/45ZR17 Hoosiers. Don't want to be a sheep in among the wolves when the green flag drops.

Resist the slippery slope my friend!

[BGCarrera32]

The biggie that jumps out at me with the older cars (SC/Carrera) is dropping the ride height down to what many call "euro spec". The 911 was never intended to sit at DOT ride height anyway for the bumper height baloney we have here. Its the first step in my book for a new 911 owner...it can be done right away when a good alignment and corner balance are done.

So, regardless of wheels, suspension mods, brakes, etc. a good lowering is an "ideal" compromise in my book.

[nostatic]

Originally posted by john_cramer

IMHO, better for your development to be driving at 100% of the car's capability with a 155HP 2.2 and 255 rubber than at 75% in an SC with 200 HP (SSI and CIS richened up) and 245/40ZR17 & 275/45ZR17 Hoosiers. Don't want to be a sheep in among the wolves when the green flag drops.

Resist the slippery slope my friend!

I have a rule right now (ha!) that there are to be no engine mods...just suspension and seat time, so I agree with you there. At thing piont I'm not much of a terminal velocity kinda guy, so the concept of driving a lower hp car as fast as *I* can is attractive (especially if lots of turns are involved). Time will tell as to how long that stays in effect.

But it seems that the only real compromise has to do with money. And wifley good will.

[304065]

At thing piont I'm not much of a terminal velocity kinda guy, so the concept of driving a lower hp car as fast as *I* can is attractive

NOW you have the Zen feeling!

I am a huge fan of "energy management" which is why I race a 2.2.

A true story, in the Watkins Glen Club Race this June I was being closely followed by Gary Hess, in a 1969 911T with 110 HP. He was able to compensate for my 45 horsepower advantage by not lifting as much in the turns, 100 pounds lighter weight, and basically the same suspension and tires that I was using.

So, here's the line of demarcation for suspension mods ONLY: monoballs in the front, Bilstein HD front, Sport rear, big torsion bars like 22/29, smartracing or charlie bars, a set of adjustable spring plates with Chuck's bushings, and 7x9 with 225/50R16 & 245/45R16 Kumho's (good tradeoff vs. the absolute grip and price of hoosiers). Lower, corner balance and align.

I see you already did the seats: now you need a roll bar from DAS-Sportsystems. Forget the harness bar, the roll bar adds to torsional rigidity, bolts right in (and you get to dump the rear seat backs) and just plain LOOKS cool with that cross tube across the back. You will still be able to fit all the STUFF you need to take to DE in around the bar, particularly if the seats fold.

The roll bar will contribute to the feeling of invincibility that is required to maximize your experience.

Once you do that, STOP. Don't lighten. Don't change the bumpers.

[Jim Richards]

What John said, but you must add a duck!

[nostatic]

Originally posted by Jim Richards
What John said, but you must add a duck!

shhh! It's wabbit season...

I agree with everything John said. We did shocks awhile back (and aligned and corner balanced), and just did sways (welts to save a few bucks...in retrospect I should have done Smarts, but they also have less ground clearance and I do still use the car as a daily driver). I went back and forth on the harness v. rollbar, and went harness for now since I wanted a bit more access to the rear. After living with it and a non-flip drivers seat for awhile, stuff doesn't go back there much anyway, so I'm thinking of switching to a rollbar. A proper passenger seat is on the way, and then I just need another harness.

T-bars will have to wait until the next money dumping (maybe in the fall unless I get a good freelance gig). At that time I'll do bushings and maybe monoballs. I've got 7/8s, and could run 245/45s on the 8s (right now I've got 205/55 front and 225/50 rear).

Then I agree...I'm done for awhile. Except for seat time.