If the flange is thinner then the spline on the shaft is too long. Not acceptable, you should have the correct cv-joint.

I think total length of the axle that what matters... Of course quality of it is the always PLUS...

The cv should not be able to move on the spline, there it a spring washer there to keep it tight. If the cv is thinner than what should be there the axle can move and wear.

First of all, fantastic thread...

Working with an '87 SC G50 trans. Need to replace both boots on one axle. Have a few questions.

1.) My 3/4" drive torque wrench only goes to 300ft lbs. If I go to 300 and try to fudge the extra 39ft lbs does anyone think this would cause problems, or should I rent something that goes to 339. 300t lbs is a huge amount of torque, and in fact my F150 uses that spec on it's spindle nut. Also sourced a new spindle nut since they are single use. From earlier in the thread...

rcecale said he "fudged" the torque... "Unfortunately, my torque wrench only went to 250 ft lbs. Using my cheater bar, I applied the 250, and then used my breaker bar to "fudge" the rest of the torque. I'm confident they are tight enough for spec."

"...Torque Carrera nut to 333 ft/lbs."

Bentley says 339 ft/lbs.

2.) Pressing joints... Pelican book says inner CV joint should "come right off" once the circlip is removed, without mention of a press. Yet earlier in this thread in several places there is talk about having to use a shop press (perhaps only for the outer joint???). I only need to remove the inner joint so I can replace the boots and clean/inspect/repack the joints. Am I going to be stuck here without a press?

3.) Working with an '87 SC G50 trans, should I go ahead and order the Schnorr or NordLock washers, M8x55 bolts, and moon plates? A little confused as to what combo to use. If anyone has a surplus set of kit they would be willing to sell that would be fantastic!!!

Thanks in advance!

If it is like my 88, the outer joint does not come off and the inner one did require a nudge with a press. I did not have a press of course so I supported it with two pieces of wood and beat the shaft out with a hammer and a piece of wood.

For torque I weighed myself and stood weight x distance out along the cheater bar.

Thanks, that makes me feel better about the torque, I've used similar methods in the past. With 300ft lbs plus a little extra, that nut won't be going anywhere.

Ok, so no press to get it off, but what about re-assembly... it sounds like once it's cleaned up it should just slide on or is some coaxing with a hammer also required?

you r correct, but I am talking about total SIZE of the axle, is that matter... while where bolts torque IS appropriate...

Well the shaft/axle length isn't gonna change, never said anything like that.
But using a thinner CV is not acceptable as it can move on the spline.

Nice one Randy... always wondered about those plates.

Nick,

I believe the CV on the left is installed backwards. My understanding is the the groove in the CV should always be towards the end of the shaft.

Someone check me on this please.

This may help:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1373287362.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1373287373.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1373287382.jpg

Proffighter's diagram (PET) doesn't show the washers, pay attention when you disassemble. I think the Elephant Racing thread shows them. You can also get away with swapping zip ties for the clamps. Track trick from a smarter mechanic than I.

Hey,
There is a lot of information in this thread, that's why the entire thread must be read in context. As I deduced earlier, once you depart from Porsche OEM parts there are variables introduced by aftermarket manufacturers, and attention to detail should be used to achieve maximum results. There is also a debate of accounting vs engineering and the resultant effects on assemblies.
There has been been discussion by more learned members on this board about the Porsche OEM choices for these assemblies, and the lack of Schnoor washers in the manufacturing/assembly process. If the early assemblies used the Schnorr washers and had no problems and later assemblies deleted the Schnorr washers and had problems. Draw your own conclusions.
The math is not difficult, the difficulty comes from having to read 19 pages of posts, and the resultant necessity to measure and determine the correct length bolt to be used for the assembly of parts being used.
After spending many hours online, and reading hundreds of pages of technical specifications as well as reading here the opinions of posters who collectively have hundreds of years experience maintaining and building Porsches, it has become clear that the CV assembly, while simple, requires attention to detail for a successful outcome.
It was also crystal clear, that the use of a correct washer and bolt system is essential. The fact that the application uses a 12.9 grade bolt, implies a higher stressed application and the necessity of correct component assemblies.
I made the mistake of treating the CV assembly with a cavalier attitude and was treated to a flat bed tow truck ride home. I have since found hardware religion and am using new 12.9 bolts of the correct length, Nord-Lock NLX washers, moon plates and surgical cleanliness in the assembly process.
eric

Not to destroy your evaluation, but here is what I have since 10 years and according manual:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1373354623.jpg

Did I said without moons, Schnorrs, etc...?;)

BTW it's a 930 Turbo '81

Glad it's worked for you. I suggest you argue with Grady and the others way more knowledgeable than me. I stand by my previous post, it's your car, you may do what you like, I hope it continues to work well for you.:cool:

Well it's more simple to me. Just what Porsche recommends and what my expirience was.

Here is my source (note: For a turbo only!)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1373404226.jpg

Once again, if you read the entire thread you might be enlightened. Grady and others far more knowledgable than you or I have weighed in and discussed the merits. Do yourself a favor and read the entire thread, then come back and discuss.

Well I red the whole thread... How do you know my knowledge?

As I said before, I trust the Porsche manual/parts catalog because my knowledge!

I said clearly that it's in my case a turbo, so 12.9 grade M10 bolts and no dust cover/moons which are softer steel. Therefore the Schnorr washer would be directly be between the bolt and the flange, which is hardened. Schnorr washers are depending on version not made for stronger than 10.9 grade bolts. Conclusion: No function possible. If you don't believe me, check this from Schnorr itself:

SCHNORR® safety washers are available in two versions: the standard safety washer type “S” is available for screws of sizes M1.6 to M36 and of the property classes up to 8.8. For screws of property classes 8.8 and 10.9, higher pretension forces might be necessary. These are covered by our reinforced washers type “VS

BTW, I am not against washers there in general, but then use some made for the bolt grade like this:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1373441447.jpg

In the 930 CV joint application, the M10 bolts torqued to 61 ft-lbs don't need any type of lock washer. The clamping force is sufficient to prevent loosening.

My race car uses 930 CV joints with the M10 bolts with no washers. I check the torque of the M10 bolts before every event and they have never been loose.

The M8 bolts use on other Porsche CV joints, torqued to 34 ft-lbs, are a different ball game. They need some help to prevent them from loosening.

Scott

YepSmileWavy

Well, just like Nickshu, I end up receiving 3 Lobro axles via PP (outstanding customer service).

All with the same part number (all packed loose from Lobro in oversizes grease soil broken boxes)...

* 2 with cork flanges and 1 machine flush flanges.

* 2 with 30mm flanges and 1 with a 33mm flanges (one of the corked one) so I still have different axles as there were no possible matched. God knows how many axles do one need to have a match?

* 1 with no grove on both flanges

* 1 with 3 groves away from the axle side on one flange and 1 grove on the axle side on the other flange

* 1 with 1 grove on the axle side on both flanges.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1374024657.jpg


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1374024715.jpg


Also on this pic with the 2 axles side by side, the contracted and extended length (shown) are different...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1374024735.jpg

Lobro packaging expertise;


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1374025209.jpg

The one wrap in the plastic bag his my return (the machined flush one) to PP.

Yep, use the cork ones, Loebro told me both will work but the cork are higher quality units.

CV axels
 

Just picked up on this thread, Have a low mileage (53k) 71 Targa , the axels have nice boots, no issues. What is recommended for a rebuild if necessary.? Thx in advance JS

TRT, just because its needed!

A nice upgrade would be an end cap to make it less messy to install and remove drive shafts.
Has anyone seen one that fits?

Once agai BTTT.

I was wondering if I could tap into the expertise on this thread and invite suggestions on my rather unique output flanges. They are 108mm flanges from a 1984 turbo look tranny. However, they are installed in a non-turbo 911 which has 100mm stub axles and so whoever dropped this tranny into the chassis decided to have the M6 holes drilled and tapped into the flange to accept 100mm CVs (rather than just swapping for a 100mm flange).

Anyhow, I am now about to buy new axles (CVs are shot) and am contemplating upgrading to the 108mm 85-89 Carrera axle (with integral stub axle). Does anyone see a major problem in milling off the 1mm outer ridge of my flanges, so as to create a flat mating surface for the 108mm CV joints (which don't use gaskets)? I appreciate that there will be 1mm less depth of M10 thread and that the grease caps on the late Carrera axles might not fit.

Or do you think I should just sell these 108mm flanges and find some 100mm flanges and stick with 100mm axles? I would like to turn the car into a dual-purpose street/track machine.

Here's a pic of the flanges:

http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/...psde674b6a.jpg

I would sell the108mm flanges (if you can) and buy some 100mm flanges.

If I was to source 100mm flanges, how many variations are there for the 915 transmission - is it just "coarse" and "fine" splined versions? I have a ZF LSD in my tranny - does that make any difference when matching the splines? Thanks.

Good reading here!

Finished removing mine tonight. CVs are shot and I will be ordering new and would like to put it back together in the strongest manner possible.

Is there anything else I need to consider other than the addition of the moon plates and scnorr washers. My engine is 279hp on the dyno(never been in the roller I have) and I know that's pushing it for some of the stock drivetrain hardware.

If you are replacing all the CVs then send the axles out to be blasted and powder coated. Its cheap, but provides a great coating for a healthy long life. Also, get yourself all new bolts. If you do not plan on removing your engine a lot buy them here. If you remove your engine a lot like I do I just buy a box of 100 at msc or grainger. I use them twice then toss them in my used HW bin.

Oh yeah, when you re-install them (cap-less ones) take some RTV (very small amount) and smear it at the joints between the CV/axle plate/out-put flanges. Keeps your CV grease in :) those cork seals are useless...

Hey guys- thanks for all the info on this thread so far. I replaced one of mine last night on my 1987 Carrera (bought a complete new axle assembly from pelican). I torqued bolts to correct 60/61 ft pound values. Plan on rebuilding the old one to use on other side or keep as spare.

Today I test drove car about 5 miles and all seemed fine until I got back onto my street. I cornered abruptly onto our street due to oncoming traffic that changed lanes without warning and looked like he might hit me.

When I pulled into garage it seemed like the axle was dragging/heavy or had a slight wobble. Once it cools off plan on re-checking torque, or do the joints sometimes need to "loosen up" a bit and get more flexible with a few more miles? Or maybe a brake pad is dragging on that side?

Thanks!

Rick

Ge the new PP Lobros
 

The replacement Lobros are just 84-87 Carrera axles with 2 roll pins in each CV. Axel OD is much better than early 70's for you big motor converts too!!! Keep your OEM units in a plastic bag and get the new Lobros from PP. The complete axel units are less than a single early CV. McMaster has the new 12.9 M10 bolts & Schnorr washers(follow install instructions on washer orientation) to protect your investment. PP has new 1/2 moons & the gaskets too.

Carrera caps
 

The 84-87 Carrera tin caps should work on the 108mm. I did not try it with the early roll pins. With the later trans & stub axle flanges it should be a go. The early gaskets are a huge pain in the posterior. Lots of profanity that day with the Euro trans cooler pump in the way.

TTT just because!

If you have the ones with the fat flanges and the rubber is not completely cracked..............Use the hours and kilometres of paper towel to restore it! And after it is clean use glycerine.

On my old cars I threw the old boots out because it IS messy to restore....but well worth it. The new ones are trash compared to the originals.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1397073485.jpg

This should be a sticky!

Or at the very least gooey since it is such a messy job.

I did this one last year - and was having flashbacks at Hershey Swap Meet over the week as I saw all the CV joints lying around.

:)

I too re-used the old boots. My old boots were still in excellent condition. I found the new ones were NOT as pliable as the old ones; I have them stashed away in my parts bin.