Info for R12 users

[PatrickB]

Why would you ever want to do that? R12 goes for 10 times that amount!

I'll never run 134 or R12 in my car again, after using ES12a. Far more efficient, and 3 cans at $6 each, fills a completely empty system...

[PatrickB]

It seems as if R134a is following the same path that R12 did several years ago.... I wonder if it too will soon be the precious commodity that R12 is today???

[Joeaksa]

Originally posted by ruf-porsche
R134a, hell they have a timetable to phase out R22 and almost 95% of the houses that have a/c or have a refrigerator uses R22.

I just had my house A/C refilled and the tech was saying something about this. Just what we need is to lose R22 now!

JoeA

[PatrickB]

wonder if the magical formula of Industrial es12a would work in the house system......

[bigchillcar]

where do you source the es12a, patrick?
ryan

[Joeaksa]

Originally posted by bigchillcar
where do you source the es12a, patrick?
ryan

Found mine at Ebay but now have found a guy locally who sells it.

Here is ES-22 for houses:

http://befreetech.com/envirosafe.htm

Same seller has ES-12. Do not know anything about him but found him with a quick Google search.

JoeA

[PatrickB]

Originally posted by bigchillcar
where do you source the es12a, patrick?
ryan

www.autorefrigerants.com/

I purchased the Enviro-Safe Industrial grade es12a, which is supposed to have a little more punch than the es12a...

Today with 88* outside temp, 90mph highway speed, and 180* oil temp, I was seeing 35* at the vent

[jimz61]

Bump to a wonderfully helpful thread. And I apologize in advance if another thread has covered this subject since. I saved this one...

Based upon the information on this thread, I purchased a case of Industrial grade es12a over the winter and looked forward to borrowing some gauges and installing it in my '88 Carrera for the summer. Like most of us with similar cars, I have a slow, slow leak that drains the system over the winter months. The system was empty (compressor did not turn) and I installed 2 cans. I'm not getting the vent temps everyone claimed. But based on the weight calculations, it seems that I should install another can. Problem is, I'm seeing 60 psi on the low side at 75 degrees and you guys say it should be around 32 to 42 at 80 degrees. I'm afraid to install the third can. Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Jim

[charleskieffner]

for reference. completely new system. ie everything replaced!$$$$$ w/R-12 37degrees out of a '87. no add on gizmos.

[Miguel Antonett]

Guys, I ordered some Duracool and added two cans ($8ea) to the system and WOW!! 45 * at the vents. It has been five weeks - here in Alabama - and still strong 45* as of yesterday. Good stuff.

[AZ1977911]

Hey Joe!

Let me know next time your free. I need to get rid of the 134a (oops, I guess I held the valve open accidentally), and try ES12.

Also, who carries it here in town?

Thanks,
Greg

[AZ1977911]

Ooops,

Posted before I saw the new posts with web addresses.

Greg

[DG624]

I have not used my AC since I bought the car...well once. I was told the hoses leak and I would have to spend $2000 to replace hoses and some other stuff. I also don't like to kill the ozone and increase global warming.

Can cause sudden death without warning

This is the especially bad after effect I was also trying to avoid.


It seems they will eventually have a system that is totally benign and won't leak. I may try it then. There should also be a system that runs off the battery and not the crank. Acura has this I think.

[defcon65]

My AC is non-existant, blows air at outside temps. Is this a good indication ALL the refrigerant has left the building? Can I safely disconnect and service the hoses and such? I contemplated removing the AC entirely, but it was 96 a couple weeks ago (in May, in the Midwest!) and that black car was hot hot hot. I'd like to get the slow leak fixed and recharge with something DIYable. I'm not interested in paying two-thousand bucks for a conversion and every HVAC guy I talk to has a different opinion on what to put in there. I had a chance to buy a twenty-pound tank of R12 black market for $200 ten years ago, almost wish I would have now. But hindsight is 20-20. What to do?

[DG624]

I can't justify doing anything untill I correct my leaking hoses. That and maybe some other stuff...I haven't run the AC in several years. I also don't like stuff that is bad for the ozone. I know there will be a solution that is not only enviromentally friendly but a revised AC that is lighter and doesn't take power off the engine. That would be worth buying...until then I will drive when the sun is cooler. I also found that using a car cover and leaving the window open really helps reduce heat when parking.

[Brad01mc]

Hi!

Yeah, I've been using the EnviroSafe stuff for about 4-5 years and yes, it's cool (pardon the pun)!

I used the pick-up tube of a sandblasting gun attached to the ac to pull vacuum. Worked like a charm!! Think Venturii effect. I think I was able to pull about 10lbs., which was fine for this stuff.

In fact, it states somewhere on the web site that you don't need to do anything to add the product. I also recall that you don't have to worry about a drier either, but I'm not sure if I agree.

I understand that 134 creates HF acid with water, so I see the reason for the drier in that system. I also understand that it removes moisture, but since it's "closed" I don't really know what to say.

In any event, I ended up putting my drier in the oven for a few hours (~250F) to drive out any moisture that had accumulated (assuming the desiccant can be dehydrated).

Everything seemed to work, then 2 weeks later, I sold the car.

Now, I'm in the beginning stage of getting the AC in the P-car to work. I need to get a hose made. Everything seems to be in order except the one hose. Once I get that fixed, I'll share my results.

I'm contemplating using one of the "pro-coolers", and now just looking at the web site, am contemplating starting from scratch. I might as well get all the hoses changed, and since the system has been open (I have no idea for how long), I should consider biting the bullet and getting the system. It's ~$1212 for everything (free shipping).

If anyone is interested, I wonder if we could get a list deal??!! I'm in. It's been about 100F in Redlands the last few days.

Brad

[yasir]

Got the leak fixed in my C2 Turbo and filled her up with recently bought R12 off ebay.If memory serves me right,the temp guage showed 42 at the center vent..yeehaaaw... O forgot to mention bought---- four---2 lb cans for $100 shipped ($12/lb )

[jimz61]

Update: '88 carrera. In my garage. Ambiant air temp 75'. No vacuum on the system. Added the third can of industrial es12a with engine RPMs at 2,000. Low side pressure 42, air temp from center vent dropped from 65 to 45!! How low will it go when I'm on the highway?!?!? Brrrr.... Bring on the summer!!

[charleskieffner]

Originally posted by jimz61
Update: '88 carrera. In my garage. Ambiant air temp 75'. No vacuum on the system. Added the third can of industrial es12a with engine RPMs at 2,000. Low side pressure 42, air temp from center vent dropped from 65 to 45!! How low will it go when I'm on the highway?!?!? Brrrr.... bring on the summer! Bring on the summer!!

the real test is when its 115 degrees and 60-70% humidity!!!! ask me how i know. will posts results here in 3-5 weeks when monsoon season arrives.

[PatrickB]

Brad~ The Renne Aire system kit is the way to go. You won't find a cheaper deal out there!

I only added the Pro-Cooler R/D, as I knew my evap. & compressor were functioning. That and the addition of Industrial ES-12 did remarkably well.

Jim~ That's the nice thing about the es-12. When the vent temp reaches 32*, back of on the cooler control. The temp still stays cold, and now the compressor doesn't have to stay on.

I've had the es-12 in my car for a year now. I didn't change out the hoses, so some has definitely leaked out. I will be topping off my system in a few days... I just returned from a trip to Vegas last week. Driving through Baker the outside temp was 110*. At 100 mph, the vent temp was around 50*, oil temp at 205*. Definitely time to top off, as last year under the same conditions, vent temp was 35*.

Even if you don't go with the ES-12, the Pro-Cooler makes a substantial difference!!