Info for R12 users

[KatoKato]

Originally posted by wholberg
...Another very good refrigerant is ammonia. Of course, if you could get past the severe toxicity, you sure would know if you had a leak in your system.

I worked in a cheese factory as a teenager and that's what they used in their refrigeration system. Even the smallest leak was detectable. I believe it was quite old. (1950's)

[KatoKato]

Originally posted by ChrisM911SC
....I thought I would pass this info along to all of you that still need or like AC in their cars...

When I purchased my car I had the wrench check the AC. He couldn't detect any leaks using UV dye so he figured the evaporator is shot. Anyhoo, as I have a Targa I decided to forget about AC. If this refrigerant does the trick perhaps I'll consider having the AC fixed.

AC is nice when it's muggy / rainy out. (Targa roof on) .... or just blowing on your feet with roof off!

Kato

[Quicksilver]

Originally posted by wholberg
The fluorines make it a lot less flammable than propane or another hydrocarbon. For instance, chloroform, CCl4, was used in pump style fire extinguishers up until the 30's or '40's.

Another very good refrigerant is ammonia. Of course, if you could get past the severe toxicity, you sure would know if you had a leak in your system.

Anhydrous ammonia isn't specifically toxic unless you get a huge overexposure. The hasmat on the stuff is much scarier then the real life reality is. The OSHA 8 hour continous exposure limit is 50 parts per million. The short term exposure limit is way higher. I personally have gone into a room to close a bottle that had leaked about 80 pounds of ammonia in about 2 minutes. (I did hold my breath.)

Now if you spray it on yourself you will get corrosion burns on the frostbitten areas.

I have never met anyone who isn't acclimated to ammonia that could stay in a room with over 5 ppm and their eyes would be running at that level.

I still think it would be way too much work to put it into a car unless you could hook it into a car alarm that would discharge a small quantity of ammonia. The attempt to steal the car would quickly stop! Hell, they wouldn't be able to get close to the car.

[PatrickB]

Originally posted by Quicksilver
Anhydrous ammonia isn't specifically toxic unless you get a huge overexposure.

I still think it would be way too much work to put it into a car unless you could hook it into a car alarm that would discharge a small quantity of ammonia. The attempt to steal the car would quickly stop! Hell, they wouldn't be able to get close to the car.

Great idea!... But first, we'd have to kill all the lawyers

[Nine9six]

Originally posted by ChrisM911SC
The site I referenced earlier sells refrigerant with blue die added for leak checking. Hope that helps.

Chris,
I am still searching the site you reference in this statement. Where can I purchase some Enviro-Safe?
Thanks,
Paul

[PatrickB]

Originally posted by Nine9six
Chris,
I am still searching the site you reference in this statement. Where can I purchase some Enviro-Safe?
Thanks,
Paul

The Coooooool web site!

http://autorefrigerants.com/

[Nine9six]

Thanks Patrick!

[ruf-porsche]

Originally posted by Joeaksa
Chris,

I am using the stock rotary compressor that came with the '85 911.

Believe the guy selling the gas locally is : autocoolrefrigerantsAThotmail.com . (replace the AT with @) Name is Terry DeFalco and tell him Joe from the Jag group sent you.

JoeA

Unless you have a seiko seiki compressor, the original nippondenso compressor that came with your PORSCHE is a wobble plate compressor.

Joe from the Jag group? what happen to Joe from the PORSCHEGroup?

[Joeaksa]

Originally posted by ruf-porsche
Unless you have a seiko seiki compressor, the original nippondenso compressor that came with your PORSCHE is a wobble plate compressor.

Joe from the Jag group? what happen to Joe from the PORSCHEGroup?

I still have the ND compressor on the car, sorry am not an expert on the various types!

Hey, I am also "Joe from the Aeronca group," "Joe from the BMW group" as well as "Joe from the Austin Healey group" so am well spread around. Terry, the guy I mentioned is a Jag owner and he would not know me as a 911 owner.

Chris, the pool was about 87 degrees today. Lounged there while sipping a Miller and catching some rays. Totally forgot about cars, bikes etc for at least 30 minutes!

Joe A

[ChrisM911SC]

Nine9six., I'm glad Pat replied, I've been out doing what Joe described, even though my pool is 91 after running the aerator for the last few days. Here's to life!!

[WinRice]

A little more info on R12 replacements:

http://www.epa.gov/Ozone/snap/refrigerants/hc12alng.html

[9dreizig]

xxxx

[fireant911]

Just a bump to see if anyone has purchased the Enviro-Safe refrigerant and has some results that they wish to share?

[PatrickB]

received my order of ES-12a industrial strength the other day. I'm still pondering the purchase of a procooler R/D. I'm probably going to bite the bullet and buy one, then do the change over... As soon as I do, I will post my results!

[justesen]

I just received a case of the industrial grade ES12a. I'll be taking it to a friends AC shop on Friday for installation. We'll evacuate all the R12 and fill the entire system with the new stuff. Being a little slow, can anyone answer this question? My 77 911S AC system has a capacity of 47.6oz of R12, right? If this is correct, woyuld I then charge the system with 16 oz og the ES-12a? If what I'm reading, the equivalency ratio is 3 R12 = 1 ES-12a.

Any thoughts will be appreciated. I'll post results of the installation soon.

Thanks!

Jay
1977 911S
37,000 original miles

[PatrickB]

Originally posted by justesen
I just received a case of the industrial grade ES12a. I'll be taking it to a friends AC shop on Friday for installation. We'll evacuate all the R12 and fill the entire system with the new stuff. Being a little slow, can anyone answer this question? My 77 911S AC system has a capacity of 47.6oz of R12, right? If this is correct, woyuld I then charge the system with 16 oz og the ES-12a? If what I'm reading, the equivalency ratio is 3 R12 = 1 ES-12a.

Any thoughts will be appreciated. I'll post results of the installation soon.

Thanks!

Jay
1977 911S
37,000 original miles

Jay, I'm installing the same in my car next Wednesday... Your estimates are correct, as far as I can tell... Check out the VERY informative link below, and hit the link for Enviro-Safe Refrigerants. They say that each 6 oz.can of it is equivalent to_18 oz./Freon or_16 oz./134a

www.autorefrigerants.com

Please post your results!!

Good luck!

Pat

[PatrickB]

Update for my A/C...
I changed out the factory r/d to a ProCooler unit. Also switched to the Industrial Grade of ES12-a. The R/D change out was nothing short of a complete PITA!!!!!!! But boy were the results worth it!!

I'm seeing 35 degree temps at the center vent with outside temp at 84 degrees today. That would be driving in the city at 35 mph. More interesting than that, when idling at a stop light for 2 minutes, the vent temp didn't raise even 1 degree! Before, I would typically see an immediate 10 degree temp increase within the first minute...

Before the change, I would typically see only 55 degrees at the vent. Unfortunately, I didn't try the ES12a in the system prior to changing out the R/D...... This r/d unit looks to be almost 4 times the size of the OEM unit... I guess the real test will be when I see 100 degree outside temps, which are forecasted here for the next several days...

[justesen]

Patrick,

I changed to the ES12a industrial grade last Thursday. I live in Charleston, SC and the day I went to my friends shop to do the switch, the temperature outside was 93 and the R12 in the system was giving me an outlet temperature of about 60. After the switch, outside temp was 95 and outlet temp was 41! Great stuff!

Both temps at the center outlet were taken while cruising at about 50mph.

Jay
1977 911S
37,000 original mile

[PatrickB]

Awesome Jay!

Let's see how long it holds up.... I'm curious to see how the system will hold the charge, as I still have the original barrier hoses... But at $6 a can... Who friggin' cares!!!!!!

What has surprised me also, is how the vent temp won't fluctuate at idle in traffic, as we all know was a huge bummer with the old system... Is that a function of the ProCooler? Not sure... I'm curious to know how your system performs at idle, and in stop & go traffic... As I just did my change yesterday, I'll keep you posted as to how mine performs as well!!

[justesen]

Patrick,

I haven't done much stop and go with it but I'll watch and let you know.

When I bought the stuff, I hadn't paid much attention to the amount needed so I bought 24 cans! I'm 60 years old now and just hope I have enough to use it all up.

Jay