Info for R12 users

[charleskieffner]

why didnt porsche set up a test track wayy back when, here in the southwest! has it EVER BEEN 110degrees + in germany?????

[movin]

I'm using the DuraCool product and have found it superior to R12 in my '87. Regarding leakage, I believe the DuraCool type products use a hydrocarbon based gas which is a much larger molecule so leakage should be way less than R12 or R134. I was thinking about using the R22 version in my house AC too. Note, the R22 version is odorized to alert user of leaks.
One concern I have is for liability in the event of a fire, damage, and bodily injury/death. Will my insurance company pay-out after finding out I used this type of product with all its warnings??? I think not! Can anyone respond to this?

[wholberg]

I did a search on this last year and the conclusion I came to was that it is very likely that an insurance company will void coverage for any claim if they find out that you filled your AC system with a flammable and/or explosive gas. If they don't find out, no problem.

[movin]

I suppose that's ditto if you use it in a home HVAC system too.

[Motorhead-45]

It was 90 degrees here today and 90 percent humidity..at least it felt like 90 percent humidity! On top of that the a/c was broke in the office all day and we have no windows where I work! I get in my Targa equipped car that doesn't have tinted windows, does have black leather interior and that's been baking in the sun all day and it's hotter than hell. Of course my 80' Porsche has 100 percent original a/c meaning it 100% doesn't cool! I give up...got home and ordered up the complete Rennaire kit and a case of industrial strength ES-12a! My credit card is bleeding but I'll be cool within the week! Woohoo!

Anyone out there have a need for a 26 year old York compressor, 26 year old hoses, and 26 year old evaporator?

[fly944]

1983 911 sc 3.0 stock ac system with new barrier hoses, flushed components, re oiled, new sanden 507 compressor I got 70 degree vent temps with R134 and 55 degree vent temps with hc 12a . This was @ 100 degrees 90 % humidity in my garage in FL . I believe HC 12A and Envirosafe are the same thing 20% butane and around 80% propane . Use at your own risk, ensure leak free system with hydrocarbon detector and enjoy cooler temps period.

[ruf-porsche]

Originally posted by movin

One concern I have is for liability in the event of a fire, damage, and bodily injury/death. Will my insurance company pay-out after finding out I used this type of product with all its warnings??? I think not! Can anyone respond to this?

To late for you now, you posted on a public bulletin board and if the insurance comapny have some sharp lawyer they could discover your postings.

[Jascha]

Found this source a year or so ago....

http://www.peakenergy.net/envirosafe.htm

[DG624]

I don't understand the fire issue. The article say 1500 degrees F for ignition. How would that ever be a problem? Maybe if the gas filled a room and there was a fire also but it seems a low possibility. I am I wrong?

[Brad01mc]

Hi!

Not to change subject, but I would not keep adding new cans of envirosafe to my system since the charge is a mixture of gases. I believe it's important to keep both in the original proportion, and it's likely that one of the gasses is lighter and therefore more prone to leave the system, than the other.

In other words, the propane might leak out before the butane, therefore, your mixture is not correct and things might not work properly/as efficient.

So, I would recommend that if you plan to add cans because of a leak, that you empty the system and re-fill with the correct ratio of gasses (which are in the can). After all, it's only a few extra $$.

Of course, it makes sense to just fix the leak in the first place.

Just my $0.02

Brad

[wholberg]

Originally posted by DG624
I don't understand the fire issue. The article say 1500 degrees F for ignition. How would that ever be a problem? Maybe if the gas filled a room and there was a fire also but it seems a low possibility. I am I wrong?

Under IDEAL conditions, such as those generated for the Daisy Cutter fuel air bomb that was used in Afganistan, propane has about 195% the explosive yield of an equivalent weight of TNT. In practice, however, an accidental release of propane into atmosphere that is allowed to mix with air and then detonated, the explosive yield is only about 20% of an equivalent weight of TNT.

The possibility of propane in a AC system venting and reaching the perfect air/fuel mixture is very small, but not zero. If you have a leak that ignites you could also have a short-lived, but very hot, flame that may catch other things on fire.

In the 20th century, CFC's replaced hydrocarbon coolants because of the fire and explosion hazard, and toxicity issues. 1500 degrees is hot for your engine oil, but not for a spark plug spark, an arc from an electrical short, etc. Automobiles have plenty of ignition sources.

Having said all that, I think that the chance of an catastrophic accident in your Porsche with hydrocarbon coolant is extremely small, but if it happens, you'll make the front page.

[DG624]

Wholberg, I feel better now...I will just wait and see how this plays out. I saw the ES22 Ad for home units. That seems doable.